The Untold Podcast
UNTOLD Podcast is where business, family, and life collide—raw, unfiltered, and brutally honest. No fluff, no fake success stories—just real conversations about the highs, the struggles, and everything in between.
The Untold Podcast
Men are struggling.... quietly, silently, behind the mask. Dan sees it every day.
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week, the founder of Way of the Viking joins us to break down why modern men are falling apart… and how reconnecting with challenge, tribe, routine and brutal honesty is transforming lives.
Dan’s story begins with tragedy — losing a close friend to suicide — and turns into a mission:
build a space where men actually want to work on their mental fitness… before the crisis hits.
Inside this episode:
- Why men are collapsing under modern comfort
- The real reason motivation never lasts
- How “training your mind” works exactly like training your body
- The Viking-inspired system that pulls men out of isolation and back into purpose
- Cold water, hard hikes, hill sessions, campfire chats, and accountability that actually sticks
- Why connection, brotherhood and routine are more important now than ever
- How your values quietly control every choice you make
- The brutal truth about purpose, midlife identity, and feeling lost
- What every man can start doing TODAY to feel mentally stronger
This is one of the rawest conversations we’ve had on men’s mental fitness, purpose, and the terrifying decline of real human connection.
If you’re tired, stuck, drifting, or living on autopilot — listen to this.
It might be the wake-up call you needed.
To find out more about Dan and The Way of the Viking check out his website.
https://way-of-the-viking.com/
Meet Dan And The Viking Way
SPEAKER_00Welcome to this week's episode of the Unsold Podcast. I am gonna be again, as usual, Chris. And I am gonna be Ash again. Today we have got Dan Gainsford. Now, first of all, nobody's probably gonna know you are Dan. I don't mean that in a rude way, but it's quite a selective crew that you work with, isn't it? Dan runs something called the Way of the Viking. In your own words, how do you explain the Way of the Viking?
SPEAKER_03So, Way of the Viking, it's a um men's mental and physical fitness programme. Um, so we do, it's got an affiliation with Scandinavia for various reasons. We so we get out doing all sorts of things in nature, doing uh cold water challenges, we get in the gym, we do hikes, we do challenges, lots of military challenges and things as well. Um but the the reason behind me starting it all was basically to create a space where men felt not just comfortable to talk, but in a situation where they wanted to come and work on their mental fitness, but from a position of strength.
Why It Started: Loss And Purpose
SPEAKER_03So um if I go right back to the start, good one of my best friends sadly lost in June 2020 to suicide. And for me, there's a big component of that when you look at we all know the statistics around suicide, as you know, men, 75% of um suicides are male, etc. But the big one that people don't often talk about is that two-thirds of those suicides are men that have had no intervention, no mental health intervention, not reached out to anyone, not done anything. So my idea is to try and create something where people want to be part of it, and we kind of get those people before there is an issue. So just to create a culture change where men are happy to talk about whatever's going on in life, their issues, before it becomes an issue, basically. So I wanted to have a programme whereby it was all built around Viking and strength, and you want to go and do it because you want to feel better in life generally, and the mental fitness is just a component of it all alongside the physical fitness and the challenges and everything else that we do. It kind of brings it all together and create that community where everyone's supporting each other, but pulling each other along, dragging each other along, pushing each other, but at the same time, in the backdrop, it's an opportunity for us to reflect and and and actually work on our mental fitness and and have conversations, courageous conversations.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what I find really interesting about this doing this podcast is the fact that you don't realise how many people are actually trying to make a difference?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, we've had so many people in here recently that genuinely you can see when they're talking, they're actually trying to make a massive difference, not just to their own lives, but other people as well. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I think it's amazing. I I never even knew that there were so many groups out there that would help men. I know we've gone really down the man rabbit hole, haven't we, recently? But obviously, we sit here as free men, so it's important that we talk about this. But I f I think it's fantastic what what people are doing, especially I know somebody that is part of your Viking way, the way of the Viking, and he loves it. And I think he'll he'll agree with me himself that he wasn't particularly fit and healthy, and probably not mentally very healthy either. And I even saw the change in him just being part of the group for a few months, so it obviously is working really well what you're doing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that it's important for the mental strength to be there in order to get
Physical And Mental Fitness Together
SPEAKER_02the physical strength? Or do you think they work hand in hand together?
SPEAKER_03I think they work hand in hand together, absolutely. I think there's a um to get to the I think first things first, if you are struggling a little bit, life's always better when you feel physically fitter. So I think the first point is get yourself, start doing the things that you can do to look after yourself physically, and that will normally work positively on your mental health and mental fitness as well. Um but then to get to certain levels, we we're trying to build resilience and and when we when we train that mental strength, mental resilience, mental fitness, means you can get through more challenges physically, and you sort of feel more accustomed to sticking to routine, sticking to rhythm, and actually building your own physical fitness so that when you get to the these challenges, you complete things and you feel better in life because suddenly you think I can cope with that. So if I can cope with that, I can cope with whatever else life's thrown at me. Um so I think they go hand in hand, and for each person, some people need the mental side of it, they're already quite comfortable with the physical, some people are the other way around, they're kind of they're they might be okay mentally, but but when they start with a physical, it tends to really benefit their mental as well.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so take me, for example, because I'm sure I reckon Chris is the same as this. I know that I need to be physically fitter, I need to be more agile, I need to lose some weight, but my mind always makes excuses for me not taking that first step. Yeah. What would you say? What because I would imagine there's a hell of a lot of people in exactly the same boat.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. A lot of my trainers in behaviour change coaching, which is a lot of what we do in the in the program. And the key thing is I don't know if you've ever heard of a book called Switch, it's really explains it probably the best. It's uh uh the guy, we have whoever you talk to, we've got two components of our brain. You've got like your primitive brain and your logical brain, or you can call it your, you might have heard of the chimp paradox, where there's like the inner chimp and your human brain. In Switch, they call it he has your elephant and your rider. So the elephant is like your emotional brain. So it's
Beating Excuses: Elephant And Rider
SPEAKER_03it's all your unconscious, it's things that you just do, but it's it's much, much, much stronger than the little boy riding the elephant, if you like. So if that wants to go somewhere, it's gonna go there, whatever, whatever you do, whatever much you try to pull it and and pull it in a direction you want to take it. So the key thing is getting that elephant on board with the little boy, if that makes sense. So if the little boy says, Come on, there's a there's a over there, there's a village we can take you to, it's got everything we want, you know, it's it's it's perfect, it's like paradise over there. But the elephant's dunno, I'm gonna go over there. You've got to get him on board because however much you say, come on, I know this is the way I'm gonna drag you this way because it's the best thing for us. The elephant will keep going the other way unless he suddenly goes, Oh yeah, actually, that's a bit of me. If I get there, there's I don't know what elephants like. What do elephants like? There's the most beautiful, muddy water path, whatever it might be, and there's food of plenty and everything you can have. If you if you do this, we are come with me and we can go together and we can make this happen. And that's kind of the critical thing is about getting those things working together and getting that alignment. And sometimes we have to reflect to be able to do that, so we just carry on and we keep trying the same things, it doesn't work, we try it and it doesn't work, and we go. Most men, I don't know if you're the same, go full guns, we'll go everything all at once, try and do it perfectly, as be as perfect as they can, and then at last we're really good to actually that's too hard. So it's trying to just build those small habits and and gradually build it in, but but by doing certain models where you know why you're doing it, that's the critical point. When you get your head in the right space, it's like this is why I'm doing this, this is why it's important to me. Yeah, that's why I need to follow suit.
SPEAKER_02So if I was like, if if why do you think you need to get fitter, for example, what's your well like I've just one of the big things is I lost my dad six weeks ago to a heart attack at 66. Um, he was fit and healthy, but he'd spent his life, he'd gone from skinny to bigger and then skinny again, and they think that might be one of the reasons because he put weight on and lost it. My reasoning is because what I've been through the last six to eight weeks, I don't want my kids to go through earlier than they need to. So that is now my why. That is my why. And to be able to, James Ray come on and he said, I want to be, I don't want to be fit, I don't want to do hydrox, but I want to be able to sprint if I need to. I want to be able to, and I just feel that I need to do more, but at the moment, my brain is making so many excuses not to do it that I'm not doing it. And you look back, and if I'd have started a month ago, I'd be a month further forward. Instead, I'm just still sitting in the same spot. Yeah, and that's where I really struggle because my brain, like my I don't know what to call it, like mental resilience to things is terrible. Like terrible. Like if once I get going, then I'm all good. But again, right, I'm going to the gym, I'm gonna buy new AirPods, I'm gonna buy new trainers, I'm gonna do this, right? A warranted now, I'm gonna go to the gym. And then one thing will happen in my life, throw off that routine, and then I'm back to
Accountability, Routine And Tribe
SPEAKER_02this, and not doing anything, and that's where I am.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just being honest. Well, I think like the way that we've we've grown up over the years, I think you you your body, your brain expects instant results, though, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's that instant gratitude in yourself, you know. Like you go up to the gym, you want to you want to walk away from the gym, go downstairs. I mean, I've done this myself. One session at the gym, and I go and look at myself in the mirror and look if I've got any big ideas and you haven't, you know, like oh well, I'll go to the gym next week instead of tomorrow. Like we just expect the world that we live in, we just expect everything sort of instantly, don't we? So I think that's that's certainly what holds me back. I just want instant results on certain things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. A lot of that, the programme is important for that because you've got if you're on your own, it's bloody hard to go out and kind of when you do get those moments, motivation drops because motivation is it's never going to get you where you want, because it's it's temporary, right? It'll get you so far. You have to have that kind of constant rhythm routine, knowing why you're doing it. So we have like daily tasks that are there, you have to tick off. It's like a bit of a competitive element to it as well, tick them off. But you've also got your your tribe mates, all the other Vikings that are there as well, who are kind of like, Where are you? Where's going on? What's going on? Why are you not? You know, what's and it you just kind of feel that obligation to keep going, even when you don't want to, you kind of and then you go, and then you find you kind of get through that period of motivation starts to come back again as you start to continue it and you can build, and then it's just those little dips, it's important to have people around you who are on the same journey as you and and can sort of lift you a little bit when you feel a bit low. And again, that's the important bit about being able to talk as well. That's where most of us would just be like, Oh, we'll just take ourselves away and and and take ourselves away from everything, and and actually that's the time I nearly need to wake up and say, I'm just drugging this a bit, I'm just can't seem to keep on it. I don't know what's going on. Obviously, you've had a lot going on, it's understandable that that's uh you know a tough thing to keep it.
SPEAKER_02But I was like it beforehand, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And now I'm using it as an even bigger excuse not to do it. I'll do I'll do it next week, I'll start next week. Oh, yeah, but I'm going to Spain and this way, and then over Christmas I'm in Spain for three weeks. But I'm like, I could get up early, drive to the beach, and go for a nice walk down the beach. I could, but I won't. And this is all the things in my head. I'm like, I could do that, but I don't. I could do that, but I don't. And it's starting to. I don't know whether it's a shift that's happening and it will come. Again, it's it's I've got to force myself to do it. Like when I'm at the gym, I enjoy it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02When I'm at a boxing class, I enjoy it. I'm sure if I came to one of your things, I'd enjoy it when I was there. It's that getting from the sofa to where you need to, and that's where I'm stuck. I'm stuck in that. I'm just being honest with you, being honest with the listeners, because I feel it's important, because I'm sure I'm not the only one.
SPEAKER_00It's probably the dopamine hits you getting off your phone every 30 seconds, right? It's probably stopping you from doing it, isn't it? Really? Yeah, it's a big part of it. That's a big part of it. Um, I just want to throw
Freya’s Calling And Inclusivity
SPEAKER_00in quickly, actually. Obviously, I mentioned about sort of men's mental health and we've gone down that way, but you don't only do it for for men either, do you? You've got a female side of the side.
SPEAKER_03No, I've got a female programme. So uh Rider Vikings been going nearly three years, but I constantly was getting people asking for the female side of it. Um, and so this year we launched Freya's calling, which has been really successful as well. A lot on a lot in the same way, a lot of the same idea, but there's obviously some differences, some variation in terms of what the focus is on. Um and and yes, it's really, really going well. And for me, it's you know, sometimes people say, Oh, it's a you're a men's go to female for me, it's we need each other, you know. It's kind of it's not just men versus women and women versus it's kind of we need each other at the end of the day. It's kind of and the understanding how each other works is is really important. So um, although they don't amalgamate very often, they're it's just good to have the understanding from both that both are happening at the same time and both can kind of reflect on what the men are doing and the men can understand what the female group's doing as well.
SPEAKER_00What would like a typical month be of the Way of the Viking? What sort of things would you get up to over a month?
What A Six-Week Tour Looks Like
SPEAKER_03So we have um we normally we're running kind of six-week official tours. So within the six weeks, we start off, we have kind of a we start with a physical sort of a testing session. Um, they'll be in the gym, so just to see where you're at in terms of your physicality. Um, then we'll go in the sea afterwards, normally a cold dip, we have Swana there and stuff as well. It's kind of where's that? Uh Lansing, we're doing Danny Lansing, yeah. Um so it's right on the beach for the gym and um go straight to the room. Yeah, not naked though. Not naked, not yet. We'll bring that in. Um so yes, we go from then then so that's a Saturday, normally in the gym, and then a Sunday we go for a hike early morning. And again, we tried to get around a lot of guys have families. I've got three young kids myself, so I want to be out and back before they're up and about, not missing too much, basically. So we go relatively early, get out, and we go for a couple of hours, different destinations around the South Downs, and it's just a bit of both. Sometimes it's more of a challenge, physical challenge, sometimes it's uh an opportunity for guys to just have a chat. It's much easier to talk when you're kind of walking rather than sitting face to face with people and you're kind of in that motion. It's much easier to have those sort of conversations. So everyone kind of uses it as they want to. And then a Monday night, Monday morning and night, we have options of uh like a hill-based session. So we go outside and do some sort of circuits on hills, and and then we have these campfire chats, which are we call them campfire chats to keep the Viking theme, but they're actually via Zoom. So wherever you are, you can still jump on and we can have these chats. And and normally we we discuss like wins for the week, what's gone well, first of all, to get people's minds in the right place, um, that they're willing to sort of be open to chatting about various things. Um and then we have different models that we'll talk through as well and different questions or just different things that we'll we'll focus on. So we might look at our values or um or our pillars of success, all sorts of different things that we'll kind of work through again to get back to to really get clear on why, not just I think that's why I want to do it, but getting really, really deep into why you're doing it, so it becomes you really, really want to do it as a real definite reason why you're doing everything. So yeah, that's how we're on.
SPEAKER_02I mean, whether it's and it has it helped you? How did you get into obviously you said you did it because, but why the way of the Viking? Now, there's another question that's like a two-ended question. Yeah, where have we gone so wrong in society that we've moved so far away from the Viking way?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, true, true. I think it's back connection. That's the big thing. I mean, as life modernises, everyone's moving into our phones and we spend more time. We've actually lost that sort of connection, that ability to talk and just be at one with but be at one, be out in nature and actually all the things that we actually we need. We kind of we've life has raced forwards technologically, and we're still a few hundred years behind, going, Christ, what's what's going on here? I don't really think it's not what I'm expecting. So it's kind of trying to bring it back to that that level of connection. And I mean, the way of the Viking is for me, I've been going to Scandinavia. My wife's Swedish, been going there for 16, 17 years, a few years, a few times every year,
Reconnecting Through Nature And Culture
SPEAKER_03and I just from the moment I went, I just loved it, loved everything about it, loved the connection to nature. You're kind of out. There's always, every time you go, you're doing something quite cool. Like I was saying to you earlier, on Christmas Day, you I'm out with my wife's brothers, we're in a sauna, you're straight in the frozen lake, which is a bit of a shock, wakes you up on Christmas Day. But you're always like ice fishing, or you're in some woodburner hot tub and you're out in the snow, or in the summer you're out in swimming in lakes, and it's you're just always out and about kayaking, you can freedom to roam and all that sort of stuff and camp wherever you like. So that's kind of a big part of it for me. That's sort of where the Viking element of it came to. Also, they have a real they have things like fika, which is like a cultural thing. I don't know if you've heard of it, but they have all men, all groups, and everyone has this. It's basically like a tea break, but everyone will kind of have this thing and they'll say, right, should we go fika? Should we go for fika? Should we go for coffee? And it's coffee and a cake, basically, is what it is. But really, it's much more important to that. Even all the offices there, they they have it, and everyone will sit, and it's an opportunity to actually just be face to face, have real connection and real, real conversations. Um, sometimes just fun, laughter, just banner, but sometimes you can have contact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. If you even suggested that in the UK, you just get laughed at for it. It's sad that it's like that because actually, I quite that would be quite. We should do that. We should do that on a on a Tuesday, just have coffee and cake. Coffee and cake. Well, we'll show before we do anything else. Yeah, you never supply the cake. Well, you can bring the cakes. But no, I like that. I and and it kind of just from an outsider looking at in it, kind of just looks like you're just appreciating what you've got around you, and you're like you're making the best of your surroundings, whereas we don't do that here, do we? It's it's you know, we were saying, we were having a conversation earlier on about the UK, and one of the main things that you can be confident will hopefully always be here is the beauty of the UK. It's one of the most beautiful countries in the world, yeah. But you forget about that because you're so wrapped up in everything you're doing all the time that you don't actually appreciate what's around you. So I quite like that. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_03A lot of guys live on the South Downs around this way, and low amount of them, at least half of them are like, Oh, I've never been on the South Downs, I can't believe that. And then you're kind of up there, and you're like, it is beautiful, it's absolutely beautiful.
SPEAKER_02It's yeah, it's it's crazy, and I think it's really important. Like the way more we talk about this, the kids there should be saying the kids should be doing this more, yeah. Um, because they are. I mean, when I was growing up, the internet was literally invented when I was sort of, I reckon, 12, 13. We didn't have this, we didn't have this. Like they say that we're connected because we're connected by our phones, but that's not real. That's not, and especially with the way things are going with AI, I feel human connection is so important, so important. Absolutely, and what you're doing sounds really inviting to me. It really does, because that camaraderie, it's like the military. I've got lots of military friends, and growing up, that camaraderie, the banter between the lads was it was amazing. It taught me so much. There are a lot of kids growing up these days, they won't have that.
SPEAKER_03Won't have that. 100%. And that's a big another big reason why we started it was because I played football all my life and played at you know lots of different levels, and
Mindset Over Muscle: Coaching Roots
SPEAKER_03a lot of my ex-teammates and lads I played against when I started putting out my previous programs, I was doing behaviour change programmes and um coaching programs, they were reaching out, and I just kept hearing the same things time and time again. It's kind of just sort of lost myself. I used to be playing football, I don't play football anymore. I'm not I don't really see my mates that much, everyone's got different lives, everyone's busy. I kind of put everything into the kids, but I don't really know who I am anymore. I've sort of lost a sense of myself. Um, and that was a big, huge component. When I the the the thing that actually was the catalyst was me speaking to an ex-teammate of mine and him being in a place he was struggling a bit, and it was and and he was I just I've got no idea, I don't really know who I am. And I was like, this needs to start now. I can't wait. I don't know, don't even know what it is yet. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I just need to start something right now and get people involved in it. So that was what I did. I literally started let's say I just advertise it straight away and said, This is what's happening. And about three or four guys said, Yeah, so I want to be involved in that, and it's just built from there. And I've kind of had to roll with it from day one. I didn't really know what it was, I just used what I've all my qualification, all my stuff in terms of professionally, but also just from general life from being around change rooms and everything for all that time and and just put it into something, it's just evolved and evolved and evolved, and I have to keep trying different things. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and it's it's just that's it's all part of the evolution, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. What did you do before this? What was your profession before this?
SPEAKER_03So I still I'm a personal trainer, so I was in strength and conditioning coach, and um that's where I start, where I've I've been doing and I still do, still do it in the mornings before I into the Viking stuff and the Fryer stuff. And um, so that's where I came from. But for me, it took me in all different directions. So I worked in um ran like a cardiac rehab uh program for 12 years in league with the NHS and also worked in a mental health hospital for 12 years, running sessions there with people in the most acute phase. Ways of their mental health, which is really good for me because you're kind of getting to meet all people in different and you just sort of recognise it could be could easily be from me or anyone else. It's just, you know, it's just life's happened to them basically, and different things have happened and they've gone down a certain direction. And so it's really good to kind of get to understand the people beneath the diagnoses and everything else. Um and yeah, so from that, I I kind of recognise the importance with my clients from personal training, the importance of your the brain, basically your mind. I think that's that's everything. Um, and so I studied NL NLP and then studying behaviour change coaching and life coaching and various other components of things that are all all around mindset, basically. And it became mindset became the number one for me. And the benefit, the difference when you bring that involved with people in terms of the success rate of what they can achieve was massive. It's huge difference from just people turning up in the gym and training with me, it was great, and that's and they'd get some some people be brilliant, some people wouldn't. And that was the kind of thing. Well, why are some people excelling? Some people do well for a spell, and then they just go off the radar completely. Some people never never get the hang of it, whatever you do. Why is this happening? And it was all about for me, it all comes down to your mindset. So if I could tackle that and actually start making that an important component of it, then you start seeing the results
Training Mental Fitness Daily
SPEAKER_03because people follow their motivation when they know why they're doing it and and and get their head in the right place for it all, basically.
SPEAKER_00I suppose with that though, that's that sort of background, you've got quite good credibility to do what you're doing, haven't you? I must admit, I look at I look at some people and I think to myself, actually, I I look at what you're doing and I I think it's amazing, but you're just like me. Yeah. You know, you you've you've not been down the route of mental health, you've not done this, you've not done that. And and I kind of in the past I've looked at joining certain things and actually thought to myself, no, I'm not gonna do that because I could do that myself. But was there a lot of red tape to go through and stuff to start something like this up, or did you find it fairly easy to get it all right?
SPEAKER_03No, I really just because it was never really meant as a business or anything, it just started as a purpose. I just started, and then as I've had to evolve all the time as I go through it. Um, with we do bring in so in the last tour, we've got a uh a solution-focused therapist that we bring in just to do a session with the guys, just because she can explain far better than I can about what's exactly what's going on, the intricacies of the brain. And and it sounds like a bit technical, but the guys loved it, the girls, because it's just like I didn't, you know, although we spoke about stuff just to go into that amount of depth and understand what the different components of the brain are doing at different points, gives you a whole sudden understanding that really it's just an engine, that you've got to kind of if you're you know, I'm not mechanically minded at all, I'm terrible with a car, but if you were that way, or if you're you and you can understand the engineering of it all, suddenly you can be like, okay, that's so when I'm doing that, this is happening. When that's happening, this is it, it just gives you a bit more knowledge, and that knowledge enables you to ri recognise that you can change things basically, and you can make it take it in the direction you want to take it.
SPEAKER_00I suppose with the like you said, the brain being an engine as well, it's important when you've got a decent engine, you you give it decent feel, isn't it? I guess when you look at it that way, it does make total sense, doesn't it? Yeah. I better stop eating McDonald's.
SPEAKER_03For me, there was bits I never understood. The biggest thing I I learned was um just that you even that you had that that amount of time to change a thought, I always thought, you know, whatever you're thinking, that's kind of who you are. And that's and it might seem really simple now we talk about it, but actually, you do have a moment where you can go, nah, I don't want to go down that path. That's uh I've got a different, I can actually take this differently. And so when you're there and you're at home, for example, and you're you're thinking, Oh, I could go to the gym, but everything in your body goes, I want comfort.
SPEAKER_02It's training the muscles. When I did mindset, the best thing I've ever done was a mindset course.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, I was in a bad way and I phoned my mate's mum, who was I said, Can you help me? She said, Oh, funny you should say that I'm doing a course tonight. And the weirdest thing in the world, we sat around this room with loads of people, like an introductory thing, and she gave us a box of raisins. I said, put the raisin in your mouth. Just like let it just forget everything and just feel the texture of the raisin. Like, weirdest thing in the world. But then she said, Right, next time you're driving, actually look around at the surroundings around you. She said, Take time to be present. Yeah, yeah. And then we do the exercises where you close your eyes and the thoughts are like clouds coming across. And I was like, This isn't. And after the program, I can now control my brain a lot better than I could before. Still needs a hell of a lot of work, but it
Purpose, Midlife And Energy
SPEAKER_02went from not being able to control my thoughts to understanding my thoughts to being able to sit with them for a minute and then let them go. Yeah, and it's helped me massively in life, sleep, everything, because I know that it's only a thought.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_02And I think that was and I think that very sounds like yeah, what you guys do is train that brain in a yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03That's exactly what and that's exactly as I how I want it to be. That people, um, I recently this week I went to Seaford Rugby Club and had a bit of a talk with them, and they're they're kind of pioneering a movement in a way, because as I said, I wanted to create a culture change where people want to work on them. We work on our physical fitness, or hopefully we work on our physical and then clubs and things like that. We work on our physical fitness and we think about it all the time, and we think about we should be doing a nutrition, but no one actually thinks about their mental fitness as a training regime, and it and it is it's like it is a daily training regime. You know, we have gratitudes, but guys have to put in the thing. It sounds all sounds can sound a bit woo-woo and everyone thinks, but it's training your brain, you're literally changing the neural pathways to think positively about things rather than always going down a certain path which could take you down a more negative path. So it is it's like literally, and I talk to guys all the time, you just got to do the reps, you've got to do the reps day in, day out, do the reps. Same as you if you want to, if you want to if you want to run a marathon, you can train for it. But once you get marathon fit, you won't stay marathon fit if you don't continue the training. It's the same with your brain, everyone gets you.
SPEAKER_02It's the same with learning, isn't it? It's the same bit when you did NLP that you've got to learn that. Absolutely. Yeah, I know a little bit of that because my mum did it. Yeah. Um, NLP and stuff like that, subconscious mind and things like that. Um, and it's really interesting, it is actually really interesting that the brain is actually just a muscle, yeah. And you could be thinking one way, but you can change that thought. And I think in today's society, even more than ever, that is very important.
SPEAKER_00I'd say I'd say that's one of the most important things at the minute, to be fair, because everybody seems so down and depressed about everything. The more depressed you feel every day, the more depressed you become. So it's about pulling yourself out of that mindset, isn't it? And forcing yourself to do something to take you out of that comfort zone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I always think it's like an algorithm. You know, you know, you've got your algorithm, you go on Insta or whatever grab, and if you start looking, if you look at a video, you're gonna get loads of those videos again. It's the same in your mind. You've got an opportunity if you go there and you're like, Yeah, I'm gonna think about that, then it'll take you down that rabbit hole of constantly thinking that way. Whereas if you spark it out of it, and it does, it is a doping hit, if you do if you practice gratitude and you write down how just three things that you're grateful, and it can be just things that like you said, the weather could be the thing nice tree, whatever it might be, it might be, or it could be something around grateful for your family or grateful for your past or grateful whatever it might be, but just triggers different parts of your brain, and you can suddenly create a different neural pathway that takes you, yeah, makes you think more positively more often, basically.
SPEAKER_02It's amazing that sometimes though you can say the same thing like oh the weather's crap today, or you can say, The weather's crap today. Do you know what I mean? It's a completely yeah, yeah, it's the same sentence, but it's the energy you put behind it, and that's what I'm trying to do. I think I'm thinking in my head, because the brain's constantly going on it, and it's just like I think in my head, oh but then you can turn that around to oh well, like, and if you try to do that and think, take the time to be present and think, hold on, it's not that bad. The weather might be bad today, but I'm still alive, I'm still doing it, I get to experience it. Tomorrow it'd be better. And I think that's really like to learn that and just to practice that to try and turn everything negative in your head. Can I put a positive spin on it? I've that's helped me a lot. That has helped me.
SPEAKER_00That's helped me a lot over the past couple of years. You're saying about algorithm. Like, uh there is something that pops up on my algorithm all the time, it's pretty much exactly that. Try not to moan about something
Scaling The Mission And Clubs
SPEAKER_00for an entire week, yeah, yeah, and it'll change your life. I got to about a day last week, maybe even half a day, but it's so difficult, isn't it? Like, but it is true, 100% true. Alright, I I've got a question for you, because we've we've we've had quite a few people in talking about similar things. Most of the people that we've had in, they're quite spiritual. Are you a spiritual person at all?
SPEAKER_03I've I have become spiritual, I'd say. I'm not not in any sort of religion or anything like that, but um, I kind of see it if you're looking for performance and you talk you talk about growth mindsets and things like that, and it and so in a case where everything's happening for a reason, you know, you talk like Ronaldo, probably one of the greatest growth mindset there is, go in front of 80,000 people at Old Trafford, and he's not thinking about this game, he couldn't care less. He was kind of he was thinking about Ronaldo, who's gonna be this the world's best player. So he would try a trick, try a trick, mate. It would go wrong, crowd boon him, didn't care, would just keep going, keep going. He's not not afraid to fail at all. For me, I kind of see faith as a similar thing, it but but in life, if that makes sense, it's that belief that this is just part of the process, you know. Everything that's happening here, this is however horrible, whatever's going on, this is just training me for whatever's gonna happen later down the line. This is just part of the process, and so in that way, I kind of have a spiritual element and and I'm a big believer in connection and and energy. I think I think everything, the world, life is energy, you know, from a science. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Science, you know, we talk about solar energy turns to kinetic energy and everything kind of moves around. So that is energy, but I think there's an energy that we can't see that happens as well. Um, when my mum died uh in 2021, there was some me and my sister were there, and um my mum was uh obviously she's on a deathbed and everything, but my my sister was asleep next to her, and she suddenly had this dream of my mum not running through this poppy field, which had been a photo we'd been looking at earlier. And then she woke up and went to my um went to my mum and sort of said, spoke to her and sort of said, alright, you can go. No, and it like it's like a connection that's kind of unspoken, it's kind of one of those things, and some people say that's just that's just lucky how it goes, but it's too there's too many things that happen like that where it's just there's some sort of unspoken connection that that occurs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I've I believe in the frequencies and stuff, and not just with stuff like that. Like, if you're I was talking to someone this morning about this actually, we have a on I'm in a business like WhatsApp group, and I put a message in this morning saying, Look, I'm struggling with purpose at the moment. Like, I don't know what I want to do, I don't know what makes me happy, but all I know is that I want to do something that makes me happy, blah, blah, blah. And he reached out to me, he said, I know the feeling. And I'm like, Yeah, but you're on your videos and stuff, your Instagram, your TikTok videos, you're doing really well. You're always you're winning, you're doing this. You say, Yeah, but I don't feel like it. And it's amazing how you put that, you can put that front on that really high frequency, and that will attract high frequency. If you went on a like, if you was on your TikTok lives, you're like, Welcome to Chris's TikTok live. Today I'm gonna sell you some collagen. And no one will buy it. You'll be watching all of it. Yeah, yeah. That's why your sales have gone down. But whereas you're all like, Chris, you're all like, right, collagen, best on the market, blah blah triple. Like, you'll get sales, and that's like a frequency, another frequency that if we put positive energy in, we're gonna
Tours, Subscriptions And Tribes
SPEAKER_02get positive positive energy back. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And that's yeah, I'm I must admit, I'm a great I I never used to be spiritual at all. That's the only reason I asked, to be fair, because the last couple of years I've changed my mindset completely, but I'm a massive like manifestation person. I really believe if you genuinely think something's gonna happen, then you can make it happen. Yeah, um, and I I've always said you always get back what you put out, you know what I'm saying? Always.
SPEAKER_02Um you keep correcting me, don't you? It's not if the podcast is the best in the UK, it's when the podcast is the best in the U.S.
SPEAKER_03It's really important, isn't it? I mean, energy, I was a similar thing. I remember being in the gym, we were I was chatting with a guy, and and and he was he'd sort of said, Oh, I've got this idea, and we were talking, I was like, Well, I told him he was telling me more and more about it, and you can see him getting really excited about it. And another one, a friend of ours, walked in the gym at the same time, and he just and he just knew without anything going on, didn't hear our conversation? Feel this energy, yeah, and it it is you exude it entirely, don't you? When it's in that place, you sort of want to be around that sort of positive energy when it's there, and it's and and likewise, some people, when you're in that that place and your your energy is really low, it it feels people feel it. You can kind of you can change a room, can't you, with your energy straight away. And it's so it's and that's why I think it's so important that you you focus on yourself, you know. So often as men, I think we think we have to put everything else first, we've got to put family first, work first. But actually, if you're in the best place you can be, everything else just works around you because the energy you give off it, it means your kids get a better dad. You're you're at work, you're suddenly giving off more positivity, and it tends to be more productive. Everything kind of works better from us. But the natural thing is we go, oh, just put me on the back burner for a minute, let's go and get that done, let's go and get that done. But I had it recently, we went we went to Lapland for retreat, which I think about earlier. And I was away for 10 days because we did a Viking retreat and then we did the Freyers retreat. And I came back and it was really busy beforehand. I got back and I was really busy, a bit disconnected from the family because we've been away for 10 days, and and I was like, God, that thing just got quite overwhelming. I'm saying I think, Chris, you know, I'm gonna and you start getting a bit low with it. And I thought, right, okay, what am I doing? Right, I'm not doing the stuff, the stuff that I'm telling everyone else to do. I'm not doing it. So let's just get right back to going full guns on getting me right again. It's I'm gonna eat right, start getting me exercising, start doing my gratitude, start journaling, do it, breath, whatever it takes. I'm gonna go full guns again. And then a day later I'll feel good. Three days later, I feel really good.
SPEAKER_02So, you're you're doing this from a professional point, yeah, and it's really difficult to stay and realise like you you've got to be the best version of yourself so everybody around you can have the best version of yourself. Yeah, and going back to what you said about sort of energy and you feeling low, I would imagine you see this a lot. If not, you experience it yourself. You're having a bad day,
Simple Habits: Steps, Cold, Gratitude
SPEAKER_02but you're accountable to the other lads in the group, yeah, and then you meet up with each other, and the five people that are positive picks the one people that are feeling a little bit down, picks up their energy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, but that's quite important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, massively, and all sorts of just being around people that yeah, we've had a number of businesses that have come, you know, as a community, all sorts of things have kind of risen from that because you're around other guys that have done it and been there and confident that it can be done. So Sonny, if you're putting yourself around people who have never done it, you won't believe it's possible. So when you see guys that have managed to stay on top of their game fitness-wise and get guys that are on top of their game business-wise, and you kind of get that feel from them and that understanding, it gives you belief as well. So, yeah, absolutely. You can kind of they have that's the whole point. You can lift each other up and take it from there. But also think what you said earlier about where you said that you uh um that you were struggling for purpose, and I think that that is the most important thing that we can do. And I mean, that's for me. I started putting some things out about what was going on in my life on social media and things like that, and and that's why people started reaching out all the time, or ex-players, because it just gives license. Suddenly, it gives license to people to go, uh, actually, you know, mate, that's all right for me to say something if you know he's saying something, so I'll I'll go and speak to him, see what happens. And everyone, I haven't met anyone yet, a guy yet who hasn't got some sort of struggles that are going on. But we we think we've got to just hide it all, yeah, everything's great, it's all good. But that that is the most powerful thing you can do is just to put it out and say, actually, it's not that good at the moment. I'll be alright, I've got to work on this, and it's but it's not it's not perfect, and that just gives everyone else that bit of license to go, actually, yeah, I'm I'll go through that as well.
SPEAKER_02I can relate, it's relating with each other, isn't it? Relating. We all have good days and we all have bad days, and I like to think provided you're having more good days than bad days, then you're doing something right. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00We all go like we've said this before, haven't we? Every man that I've spoken to has gone through like what you're going through now. I'm a bit older than you, I know I don't look it, but um obviously I got to a point where I didn't feel like I had a purpose, and I think it's I think you get to a point in between 35 and 45 where your life completely flips upside down. One minute you're a young man, and the next minute hate to say it, but actually you're closer to the end than you are to the start. Yeah, yeah. And if you haven't achieved what you wanted to achieve, or you've achieved more, or I think everything one day you just wake up and you just think to yourself, like, what am I doing now? Yeah, I've got kids, I've got a wife, but is that what my purpose is? Am I here to do that, or am I here to do something like that? And it's quite a strange feeling, so there's a little bit of a bit of an arm around you, mate, really, to be fair. Because I think every every man does go through that. I don't know whether you obviously the men that you speak to on a daily basis, whether they all kind of come out of the thing or not.
SPEAKER_03No, that's exactly, I think, isn't it? And you said around that age, age is is of a critical age, you know, you kind of get to that thought you've a lot of the time you've suppressed so much as well because you've just been doing doing whatever, and then you kind of get to a point you think, oh, is this it? Is this what it's all about? And it's and that is a critical point, really, and that's you know, that's why we want to try and find your purpose at that point and see what it is without over I think it's without overly
Cold Water, Presence And Resilience
SPEAKER_03stressing about it. Because if you're going, I've got to do it, I've got to find my purpose, or just take action towards something. You mean you're doing this now, it's kind of all these this could be your purpose that's kicking it off. It's all these sorts of things, you just you take a small step in a direction, yeah, and that could be could be it.
SPEAKER_02Um, and yeah, and it's I guess as well, it's like I I'm a strong believer that you're an average of the five people you spend most of your time with, and like that accountability. When you have a gym partner, you're more likely to go to the gym and so are they because you're holding each other accountable with a podcast. Like Chris has held me accountable when I was out in Spain and I couldn't be bothered to do anything. I've held him accountable say when he's not been up for it, and we're sort of like, right, we've got to do this. If I was just trying to do this podcast on my own, we wouldn't have 44 episodes. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? We might have a four sporadic, but because we're holding each other accountable for it, yeah. It's um I think that's important, accountability, accountability buddy kind of thing. Yeah, let it up. No, it's from South Park. It's from South Park. That's not my mentality to be there. It's from South Park. But no, I think what you're doing's like I think what you're doing's incredible. Really? I really do. I know I'm quite interested in quite interested in it.
SPEAKER_00No, I asked you this earlier on, obviously, like whether you charge for this or not. I think it's really important to mention that you you do charge for it. Yeah. And I think it's also very important that you have to charge for it. Yeah, yeah. Because we've had a discussion, you know, the amount of work that you put into it, from what I've obviously I've had conversations with Chris, yeah, the amount of work that you put into it is a hell of a lot of work. And it it's it's so important that people are aware how much work goes into it. This is pretty much a full-time job fitness.
SPEAKER_03It is now, yeah. I mean, I didn't pay myself until recently, so it was everything was kind of just staying in the in the bank so I could for however I needed it for future. It was kind of that's what I'd have to do in all my work, that's why I still do personal training. Um, but it's the only reason they've got to the point where I just I have to start taking some money for it because it's not going to grow anywhere or go anywhere. If I don't, it has to be if I want to serve as many people as I can, then I need to be able to give it my full attention. And all the time it's a it's a hobby in the background. I I can only take it so far. So so that's kind of how it's how it's evolving, and that's what it needs to do, really, moving forward. So what are your hopes to go forward?
SPEAKER_00What what what are your sort of aspirations within the next few years?
SPEAKER_03Well, the aim, my aim has always been to create that culture change, to make it where at all levels from down to young children, particularly around men, because that's where it started, around boys to actually become where they're in an environment where talking about just understanding your emotions and getting a bit understanding about your mindset becomes the norm and actually something that people want to do, and and men actually. not doing it because they're desperate because you know that's that's at that point stuff and there's but there's lots of groups out there already that do that that kind of can deal with or can people can go to and and talk but for the guys that don't realise that maybe that they're even struggling to some extent guys that are just I want it to get to a point where the the culture is I want to do this because I want to be the best version of myself and I want to train myself I want to train my mind in the same way that I train my body or train at work whatever else it may be. So the aim is to kind of grow that and we're trying to grow a community uh largely for people who don't have those communities anymore. We've got some ex-military guys, some guys who haven't ex-football footballers, rugby players, etc. But I also think there's communities already established, which is my next point of attack really, where I want to go into sports clubs, things that are there already, where there's already men in there working together, going through a lot of the physical stuff already together, but they're not doing any of the the other side of it, the mindset work.
How To Join, Who It’s For
SPEAKER_03I'm I really I was a couple of guys that came into the program were ex-teammates of mine. And when they came in and we started talking about what's been going on I didn't have a clue. I thought I was pretty close with them. I didn't have a clue what was going on with them. So I've sat in a change room think we're all mates and we're all and we are mates, you're teammates, but that none of that those conversations happen and we could have been supporting each other in all sorts of ways had we known that. So I kind of want to create something that's moves out to these places and becomes the norm that these clubs have that as part of their training regime that they're actually working on the mental fitness and and connection between the players and everyone else there supporters that whoever's there everyone can benefit from it. So that's kind of the next point is that to try and create a culture change that way within communities as well.
SPEAKER_02So yeah so what is it then? Is it you said about six weeks is it a six week program?
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah so we have we have six week tours but we have a it's a subscription basis basis as well so in between tours we have kind of tours that aren't quite as uh intense if that makes sense but still keeping people accountability accountable because what a lot of the guys the feedback was they when I asked everyone originally what have you done before and they said I've done this program it was great did it for 10 weeks 12 weeks and then it finished and it was like and that's that sort of thing it was like and then I just went back to all my so I wanted to have something that we have something we work hard but then there's also a level of accountability always because it's like we said earlier it's all well and good to do something all intense for a period but then to keep it up that's where the resilience really comes in and to actually learn that you have to keep these habits and they have to become habits and keep it going. So yes we have six week tours where we have uh we put the eyes in different tribes there's an element of competition to it as well so there's a you get points for um the amount of tasks you complete um for attendance things like that as well uh as well as um sometimes we just set them a task like one week it was how many um you have a lot a certain amount of points for doing certain amount of press ups or squats wherever it might be but everyone's kind of gin each other to do certain things as well so you've got that real team element to it as well and it's a bit of friendly competition and a bit of banter that kind of goes on between it all as well. And that's kind of what the main six weeks are about is kind of a real six week tour where there's a bit of a competition to it. And then around that you have a little break where it's just you keep your own personal habits keep them going and there's still accountability and then you go back next tour and it kind of changes up the structure a little bit if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Oh okay so you don't just do one six week block and then you're sort of out the door not out the door you do a six week block and then could you be could it be a choice?
SPEAKER_03So I've done the six week block and then I'm just gonna go monthly
Wrap-Up And Ways To Connect
SPEAKER_03and stay in the group, be accountable, turn up for the swims, turn up for this, turn up for that, and then you don't have to do the next six week block Uh we normally get everyone in the tour anyway because most of the stuff will be the same so everyone we say you come and join in the tour but sometimes we'll have if someone I think it's gonna sometimes people just need they say I'm gonna have a really this month I'm a waiver whatever it might be and I've got this then it'll be like oh we just won't put you in a tribe for this one you can just concentrate on you but still just get and do as much as you can. Yeah yeah um so there's that sort of selection as well but but the six weeks is is quite critical because I think once everyone's in it you're all in it if that makes sense and it makes it a bit more of a yeah a bit more of a challenge for everyone really and can can can anybody join at any time or is it literally you have to join at the start of the six weeks and then wait till the next six weeks yeah it used to be that's we've changed it and that's a lot of the evolution we used to have 10 week tours we started off with 12 week tours then we took it to 10 week tours and then um and we sort of brought it down to six to make it more accessible but now we've kind of got it where people can join at any point um they'd just be on a slightly different programme because obviously the other guys' schedule's already set so they'd be on they can join it they just kind of have a bit of an introductory programme around it so they still go to all the sessions can join in everything um but they're just kind of working on their own the the the basics of it the fundamentals if that makes sense until they can we can get into the next tour and then they're full guns into it because the big reason for that we you know there's guys that we you kind of miss you think they really want to do it they've reached out and said oh can I join we say yeah next tour's not till and it's yeah we've just started one you've got to wait six weeks mate yeah yeah and it's you know when people if someone's that had the courage to reach out that's the time I want to get them in immediately and go yeah come on let's go and yeah six weeks that might have lost that might have you sitting back on the sofa worrying about everything again yeah it's like the mindset thing if my friend's mum wasn't doing that call that night probably would never have done it.
SPEAKER_02No no it was only that she was doing it that night um that I went and did it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah it's just perfect timing you're sort of ready to go and yeah yeah so do you have like um but the do you have like a championship or anything like that is there any sort of award ceremony or anything yeah we have uh so tribes we have uh so we have an MVV at the end of it which is the most valuable Viking who kind of gets the highest percentage completion and stuff like that on the on the in terms of the tasks but also within the tribes we have uh what we call it the sacred shoehorn trophy because it's a bit of an old sort when we started the very first one there's about five or six guys doing it the first challenge that we did we said right we're gonna we're gonna do the full South Damway and we're just gonna wild camp it um for two nights and we're gonna try and do it in three days and uh one of the guys who came out in the first one we said you know pack you've got to take everything with you that you're gonna take but obviously be a bit sensible and he one of the guys Danny turned up with a shoehorn um like eggs six boiled eggs in a thing it's got like a deck chair you're like he didn't he only got to the end of day one not surprising because he had this bag that was like he brought his whole house with him so ever since then we've called it right that's the shoehorn that's everyone's trying to win the sacred shoehorn is what he uh he brought on that on that trip and um that's how we've always carried it on from there it's just a bit of a old folklore tale of the early early challenges basically how much dedication is there to how much dedication would someone like me need to give to join what's the so this the six week tour.
SPEAKER_02Yeah you said Saturday morning, Sunday Monday.
SPEAKER_03The obligation is for two of the sessions so to make two of the sessions and then the others you you do can do makeup sessions. If you're you can do your own thing as long as it's something equivalent to what we'd be doing. So if you can't make a campfire chat we get the guys to just send us a video of what their wins are for the week or whatever the question might be just to give us a quick so where they're still connecting with everyone if they're away or whatever it might be. And at the weekends it's yeah if you can't make all of them if you your aim is to try and make two of them if you can. We do have a distanced option as well so if someone is away for six weeks then they've got an option they can still do be part of it all but they obviously don't have an attendance because they can't make it where to travel.
SPEAKER_00That's wicked if only I had more time on my hands.
SPEAKER_02Mate you've got more time than anybody what are you up to Chris I've just finishing the 17th episode of German it was really good today actually stranger things started this week I haven't we've got over that yet sounds like so five things that simple thing because I think as humans like I'll do it we spoke about this earlier we look at right oh no we talk ourselves out of it because we set our goals too high. Yeah so what's your top five things that you would say to someone to sort of start the Viking way that are simple everyday things they can do to make themselves feel better mentally and physically I think the three the basic things the things that we really focus on is just kind of step count cold showers we had in I know we spoke about earlier just at the end of your showers and gratitude lists things that I think are a really important good place to start.
SPEAKER_03But I think one of the biggest things is is also to get clear on your values. So we have a a questionnaire a document that goes out and you can use it in different ways. It's just a series of 13 questions anyone can do it. It's a D Martini questionnaire we use and um it tells you where your energy is going at the moment where your where your priorities are so for me I found it really good when I first did it because it it showed me where my values actually are what are the three most important things and I use it all the time in terms of my decision making as well so for me it was kind of my my kids and my family were kind of number one which a lot of people will come up with but then it's about travel and adventure and experience and then about personal growth. So I've had some good friends going away and they're going to Magaloof or something and they're good mates and I love them to bits but it's like I have the choice to make do I go there is it and I I always weigh up is it gonna affect any of those if it affects all three of those positively then I'm doing it. If it's affecting all three of them negatively I'm not doing it. If it's like one of them's a bit positive for the others then I have to kind of weigh it up and so sometimes it'll be like if I go to Benadorm and is it going to be positive for my family probably not I'm probably going to be spending money I'll be spending all that sort of stuff um so I use it for that another one of our guys he he uh was on it and he did his values and he found that he um his highest value came out as the pub and that was a big eye but he literally pretty much changed his life overnight on that from when he'd written it all down he'd never really thought about it before he said dad he had his kids and he he came into it saying I want to be you know role model to my kids and he realised that the number one thing on his list was the pub. That's what came out massively above everything else. He's like I don't want that that's not what I want my values to be so he immediately changed his life really after that he suddenly went from being someone who couldn't run a bath to running 10K he's running built built himself up to doing all sorts of uh all sorts of events and stuff like that to sort of get himself to a position where he was actually a bit more of a role model that he wanted to be to his kids so values I think if you can start get to that first we'll get really really clear on what that is then that would be a number one a really good place to start from in my perspective. Yeah and the other things are just kind of the the general tasks I would say around your your your fitness and make sure you're doing something daily connect with other people find other another group whoever it might be if it's a buddy as you said or someone that you can go make sure there's someone else that can keep you accountable.
SPEAKER_02I think that's really essential and um and also having routine we we kind of we thrive in structure is freedom we sort of yeah we think freedom's being able to do whatever you want and actually it's yeah I don't I can vouch for that yeah I've got literally no structure at the moment and it's it's terrible tough really bad throws you all over the place today you think yeah my anxiety goes mental if I haven't got some sort of I'm like I don't know if I'm a proper control freak like I hate not being in control of things like it really sends me so like that's why that I sent him some invites today on the calendar I've got a calendar I've got to have a calendar Chris I must have I thought what's he sent me now just accept it I'm not even looking at it yeah yeah so um but yeah no I mean what I just want to I want to talk about cold plunges and cold showers because obviously that's big at the moment yeah it's really big everybody's telling you to get up at five and do a cold plunge um what are your takes on it cold showers and cold plunges well I I like the reason I like um cold showers and that and cold water immersion is we're talking earlier about getting back to being present and we're so our minds are always kind of all over the place and when you're having a cold shower or getting in cold water it's kind of that it just forces you forces you to be present all you can think about is it's cold let's go and try and get yourself into that that position where you're just trying to deal with that and breathe and get through it.
SPEAKER_03So from a mental point of view I think it's really important. I know for people who um who uh self-harm things that it's one of the things they say to do to get that element of control back actually going to get in a cold shower rather than before you start if you can before you self-harm just try that first and see if it can just bring you back to slow your thoughts down slow your processes down so that you you feel more present about life and and suddenly your your thoughts that take you off a million miles an hour back to being where they are so so I find it really good I like it from a position of recovery as well a lot of guys after the gym we're going to see afterwards and and it's um they feel better for it but for me it's really the the mindset element of it to if you can if you finish your shower with a bit of cold at the end you've already achieved something for the day it's like something you're building resilience straight away because you've done it you're like I don't want to do it I no one likes it. I don't think even Vim Hoff likes it when he talks about it he says I still hate the cold but it's that thing of I'm gonna put myself in that position and and I'm gonna get through it and um and and then once I've done that I've achieved something already so it's a really positive way to move forward from there.
SPEAKER_02So yeah I think as I told you what's the ample time do you think like so I went through a period of probably four or five weeks of doing every morning I'll have a shower before I get out I'll turn it to cold yeah and now I'm a big wimp and I don't do it anymore. But what's what do you think is the ample like amount of time because some people will spend five minutes in a yeah yeah in an ice bath yeah what's from your experience what's the right way to do it or what's the way that it's going to actually benefit you?
SPEAKER_03I think it depends what your focus is from a mental perspective I think just doing it if you're in there for 10 seconds or or 10 minutes doesn't really matter it's the fact that you've done it and you've braved it. I always kind of sit just for a minute I am for a minute and see if I can be in a for that long it's kind of enough that you you get that initial shock but then you kind of learn to breathe through it get the control of it all get control of the situation then you become accustomed to it and you realize it's not that bad and you you come through the other side. And we actually um when after my friend died um we actually created a a a challenge which was cold shower challenge where another friend of mine had a um an app that which was called True Challenge and and he's and it was basically something where you put a challenge in and everyone joins in a bit like the ice bucket challenge and that sort of thing. So we um we said I want to do something just to raise awareness for men's suicide and everything and all the statistics around it and everything else and also a bit of a send off my friend because he was in Spain and we were unable it was COVID and all that sort of thing you were unable to actually have a bit of a sense of something to kind of recognise him as well and um and yeah in that we did culture challenge you had to go in for a minute and come back out and and and that was part of the launch of the Vikings in some ways because of the first episode I just spoke a bit about um suicide statistics and my friend and it and I then you had to nominate other people and they uh what happened was they started talking and that was when the the when you realised the power of that as well that they were kind of they that when they've got an opportunity to talk and they've shown it's alright to talk people men do actually want to open up and talk about things it's given that opportunity um but yeah sorry I went a bit off a tangent but but yeah the the cold showers a minute was on there and when we spoke to the the legal advisors from his team as well they're like oh a minute's fine because we don't want anyone yeah kind of hypothermia on camera is probably not the best thing to happen but but yeah I mean and and you can train your body to be in there as long as you want to really isn't it's this everyone you've got to build up to it like anything else. So what do you do? Do you ice bath or do you cold shower? I cold shower most days but I go in the sea whenever I can I prefer the sea or a or an ice bath if I can I think it's much more uh once you're in you're in and then you can sort of breathe through it. The shower keeps hitting different spots and it kind of shocks you differently every time but um yeah so I prefer the full immersion if you can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I lost a bet once and I had to go and Brighton see at four o'clock in the morning after a night out and uh it was February. Oh brutal uh so I won't ever be doing cold water swims ever again after that it's uh it is very very cold doing that so I'll take that off to anybody that can do it to be fair.
SPEAKER_03I bet does it get easier yeah oh yeah definitely I was saying to you earlier what we um for Christmas day you go in the sauna and my brother in law's they'd all cut a cut hole in the ice over in Sweden and you're straight and you're in it is there lots of whiskey involved yeah there's a lot of schnaps I'm in but yeah first time I went in I literally I thought I was dying I shouldn't get my breath for about a minute I thought I'm actually dying in this isn't this isn't not good because every year after I've done it and because I do all the time now I go in there and last the last time I did it it was actually the coldest one that we've had it was over there it's brutal about minus it was minus 20 or something down there been in colder but never in the cold sea for that the cold river cold lake.
SPEAKER_02What would the lake temperature be if it was well so bad it's cold it didn't get to before freezing so there's a kind of block about that yeah it's really uh and uh yeah you're going and it's as good as gold it kind of went in there's no problems now you really enjoy it oh we're getting out now whereas it used to be yeah the first time was was a battering so it was brutal so you can definitely train yourself to it without doubt I like how it's because it it takes me back now to when I've done it I've not done it for ages but it was that mental strength because you don't want to do it you're all warm you're in the shower you're nice but it's that mental strength of just turning that dial yeah and the best times is when you just go for it and not do it slowly slowly slowly I might start it again you know yeah go for it I actually don't mind it so we I used to go skiing with my mates all the time and as soon as I'd get off the ski run if we didn't go and get drunk afterwards straight away I'd go back to the apartment and fill the bath of water and I'd just get in it.
SPEAKER_00My mates thought I was mental but it was only because I was so unfit that my legs if I got up the following day would be in absolute pieces.
SPEAKER_03Right right so I actually don't I actually don't mind it and and I actually I do think that I honestly would have an ice bath at home if I could ice bath obviously I've got a health conditioner that I can't do it but um even cold showering you can tell just by having a cold shower how much benefit it does give you yeah yeah definitely you should get I reckon what we should do is we should get an ice bath bring it here fill it up with water let it get really cold and then we'll do a live we'll do a live podcast for you in the ice bath me and we're we'll do it for charity and the amount every minute you can do it for you'll be towards charity grand how can people find uh what your the uh the way at the Viking what's the best way to to contact me for our website got uh w www whyotreviking.com so why of python is all we could get unfortunately in terms of what was available so why the Viking.com um just go on there and send us a message from there it's probably the best thing to we'll link it all we'll link the website we'll link your socials and stuff we'll link it in the when this episode goes out um but no yeah I'd be interested to learn more about it to be fair um maybe just volunteering himself to come and do a cold yeah come and get myself well we'll come down do well we can come down we can come down with the cameras can't we Chris and we'll feel anyway I'm happy to hold the camera if Dan will have us then we can talk to the men about it as well we'll bring the mics down if you're up for it. Yeah of course yeah maybe a little a little untold challenge you're right on the spot there isn't you we're we're definitely coming when you have no choice we can cut is that have you seems like a nice guy he's I've got one question what sort of age group is it that you sort of cater for because I know there'll be people listening thinking oh I might I might go and do that but they might be a bit concerned about sort of age groups oldest guy most senior guy is um 59 he's 60 and our youngest we've the youngest we've had we had a couple of guys in their 20s normally the majority are around sort of that late 30s to mid 50s that's kind of the majority um but yeah but we have had guys at either end of it I was really pleased actually to get a couple of younger guys come in and try it because I think if I was their age I would love to have Done. I don't know if I would have done at the time, but looking back, I wish I'd had that around me, that sort of influence of all the other guys that have been through it all as well, and can kind of life's pretty manic for them. They're in that younger stage of life, and all going on, families starting when everything's happening, and just to have sort of some older heads there that go, it's right, we've been through this, it's kind of we we know what you need to do. So that was really big for me to have a couple of guys that are younger on it as well. So it's open to any age group as far as I'm concerned. It's there's no limit on it.
SPEAKER_02As long as you can move on. I like it. I like it.
SPEAKER_00I like the I can I can hear your brain. You're going, I really want to do this, but I don't I I I'm not sure if I want to do this. I really want to do this. You've gone back to what you said earlier on. Like you you you know you want to do something, but you're not you don't want to do it.
SPEAKER_02No, yeah, maybe we'll get get Christmas out of the way, because that's the thing now, it's Christmas. I'm I'm here, I'll go tomorrow, and then I'm back, then I'm back for 10 days, and I'm in Spain for three weeks. Yeah, going out going out to see my mum. And I might I might try it. I might she said the pool's 12 degrees and the sea's 11. That's not really classes are gonna water. But that's not the cold water, but this is the thing, it's cold for me. Yeah, it's cold for me. But my mum's like, you can't jump in because you you might die. I'm like, I don't think I will at that mum. When people are doing three and a half degrees in an ice bath with ice floating in it, I don't think your pool in Spain's gonna be. But yeah, no. Well, Dan, thank you so much for having me for the time to come on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, really appreciate your time, mate.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate yours, thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_00Really appreciate it. So if anyone wants to get hold of Dan, obviously we'll add all the links into well, I'll say we. Ash will put all the links into the bottom of the uh the episode so you can get hold of him. Um I've been Chris, and I've been Ash.
SPEAKER_02I've been Dan. And that's been another episode of the Untold Podcast. I'll do this a bit, Chris, because you still haven't learned the number. If you want to get in touch with us, drop us funny videos, dilemmas, or if you want to be a guest, last week's episode was with a listener. Um 07511 272 459. Send us stuff, we'll read it online. We'll see you next week for not the Christmas one.
SPEAKER_01Not the Christmas one yet.
SPEAKER_02We'll see you next week, we're not sure what it is yet.
SPEAKER_00I think it is a Christmas one.