You Alright Mate? Redefining Success Before It Breaks You | Sam Thomas

Sam Thomas, founder of Different Hats and the You Alright Mate? campaign, sits down with us for a blunt conversation about men, money, and the moment success nearly killed him. At 40, after a decade of chasing the millionaire dream, he found himself crying in his car, convinced he’d failed at life. Walking back into the house to his kids’ hugs and his wife’s arms flipped the script: if success was measured in relationships instead of wealth, he was already rich. That realisation became the start of a mission to rewrite what “doing well” actually means.

Sam unpacks that turning point, the suicidal thinking that led up to it, and how he rebuilt his life around love, presence, and “enough” instead of Lamborghinis and follower counts. We go into the damage done by the current definition of success, the role of social media in warping young minds, and why Year 10 classrooms still equate “making it” with fame and money. Sam explains his work in schools teaching emotional literacy, active listening, and the basics of talking about feelings without shame — and why that matters more than exam scores for the next generation.

We then dig into the reality of money pressure: why lack of money keeps so many men in permanent fight-or-flight, why financial stress sits behind so many suicides, and how to hold ambition without letting it run your nervous system into the ground. Sam breaks down his You Alright Mate? movement, the Monday check-in ritual, the programmes he’s building for workplaces, and his belief that asking for help is courage, not weakness. It’s an honest, unpolished look at what happens when you stop saying “I’m fine” and start measuring life by love, presence, freedom, and the willingness to tell the truth about how you’re actually doing.

Listen to Sam’s Podcast:
 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7J1P3Qckm5iEOrJz3gTalK

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/different-hats-podcast/id1565427906

Learn more about You Alright Mate?:
https://www.different-hats.co.uk/you-alright-mate

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Sam And The Mission
• 2:45 Business Highs, Failure, And Identity
• 6:40 The Dark Moment That Changed Everything
• 10:30 Redefining Success Beyond Wealth
• 14:15 Social Media, Kids, And Money Myths
• 18:05 Schools, Emotional Literacy, And Change
• 23:05 Presence, Phones, And Human Connection
• 27:40 Enough Money, Freedom, And Time
• 33:10 Culture Shift Vs Tick-Box Wellbeing
• 36:50 The You Alright Mate Campaign
• 41:30 Vulnerability, Shame, And Asking For Help
• 47:20 Action Over Ideas And Real Impact
• 52:10 Imposter Syndrome And Lived Experience
• 56:30 Where To Find Sam And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:04

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Untold Podcast. I'm Ash. And I'm Chris. And today we have Sam. Now, I've wanted to get Sam in for a long time. I've followed Sam. Um, we've known each other now, what, a couple of years, been to events together and things, and I love the message. Are you alright, mate? And being Mental Health Month, I thought this was a perfect opportunity to get Sam in because he knows a hell of a lot more about mental health than we do. So without further ado, Sam, welcome to the Untold Podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

Gents, thank you. Great to be here. I've um obviously been a fan of you guys as well, been watching you. I know we sort of spoke when you starting the podcast and stuff. So I've been watching and it's love what you guys do. So yes, honoured to be here.

SPEAKER_03: 0:46

Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:47

Thank you, mate.

SPEAKER_03: 0:48

Um just uh go back a bit before the the message are you alright, mate, check in on a mate. Who are you and what what happened, what happened in your life that you were like, right, I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02

Um I do want to go back. Right, I I I guess I've I've I start from my business journey. I guess I started um nearly 15 years ago now, um at a hair salon. Um I was part of the Tony and Guy group. Didn't to be honest, I wasn't uh we've all got skill sets in life. Hairdressing was not one of mine. I was rubbish, so I didn't um I'll never become a hairdresser, but it was a it was purely a business venture for me. So I just wanted to I've managed to salon in Lakeside for about five years, and then the opportunity came up to take over my own salon, um, which was down here in Brighton, so I commuted from Essex to Brighton every day, seven days a week for on my motorbike, which was a challenge in itself. But um I learned so much about business and about about myself really then as my foot, but it failed, you know. I ended up having to close it down, I had to sell my house in Essex. Um it worked we had a great time, but I I did learn so much about uh again, about myself, about life, and I was like, what it did enable me to do is I started to build that network of people. So I was out networking because I wasn't cutting hair, and I just built this amazing community within Brighton. I just integrated into it, met some incredible people that opened so many doors. And I remember people came to me, all mates and stuff from Essex, going, Oh, you you're coming back now, this business thing ain't quite worked out. And I said to my wife, I said, Look, no chance we're getting back. I said, The opportunities are here, I've got this network. And I did uh ended up then I got involved with Fernballs, which is the five-of-side football leagues and networking through sport, which I you know still run today. I've been grew that over the last 13 years. We had leagues all over the country, um, London, Birmingham, Manchester, and all across the south coast. Um, and then I took over SBT, which is the magazine in 2017, and just I kept building out so I had a couple of businesses doing all right, and then I got to 40, and I think my my driver for them 10 years, I started my first business at 30 and got to 40, and I'm my driver was money. I wanted to be why did I want to run a business? I wanted to be I watched so much Only Falls and Horses growing up without a doubt this time next year, right? That was a fee. I'd say to my wife almost every day, this time next year, this time next year I'll be a millionaire. And that was my driver. I was I bought into that if I'm gonna run a business, I'm gonna be a millionaire, mate. Um and I got to 40, I was coming up to my 40th birthday, and I was really like at a real low point. Um I probably, you know, for someone that people will see me on social media, so you see me at events, I'm that guy, right? Alright, everyone's alright, smile on my face, got a, you know, um, I'm an eternal optimist, everything's always gonna be alright, I was always no problem. And then I hit this point in life and I look round and I hadn't hit that milestone. I hadn't become the millionaire that I said I was gonna be. And my twins were what going back now, so that had been about two, um, two and a half. Um I had a beautiful wife, we've been I've known her since she was 11, been together 28 years. Um I I on paper I'd look around and I was like, I've got this, but I hadn't hit this milestone that I'd set myself that society would deem me as being successful. So to be successful, I'm gonna be a millionaire, I'll not hit that. And actually, then what happened was for me, I just I went into a really, really dark place. Um and like I I didn't realise actually, I'd spoke about this quite a lot over the last few years, and it wasn't until last year when I went on a retreat with Toby Moore, who runs uh TEDx, and I went deeper than I'd gone before. I really opened that door and relived that moment, and I still remember it clear as day now. And he you know, I I went reliving it, it came up, and I was like, I remember just I felt like a complete failure. I was going through such a dark time, I was crying every night just sitting on my own. But I was instead of and people I had mates, pals who I'd grown up with, and brother and people checking in and going, you're right, mate, I ain't seen you for a while. Yeah, just or ignoring them and not speaking, because I I didn't want to be that guy. I was this guy over here, Sam, I'm Sam and I, I've got the energy. Um I didn't want to be this guy, and I felt like I didn't want someone to phone me up and go, I know what I'm struggling. I didn't feel I could be that person because I didn't want to be someone who'd seen as negative or um weak and that side of it. So then I still remember I got that day, I remember I remember waking up in the morning, I had to go to a meeting. I remember waking up and I was sitting in the bathroom, I was just crying my eyes out. And I remember and I wiped my eyes, I walked out, said by the kids and my wife, and I wasn't sat in the car, and I just I just broke down and I um I just I just didn't want to be it. That's the honest truth. I just didn't want to be here anymore. Um sorry, I'm just uh it's tough, mate.

SPEAKER_00: 6:12

It's reliving things is very difficult when you've gone through something like that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 6:16

So weird, isn't it? Because I I've said this so many times that and even on other podcasts into that and I don't know, it's still when you go back to that moment, it still does just I just still remember sitting there just thinking I just don't and I don't know what happened. I remember sitting in the car thinking that and I'm just crying for age, I just sat outside crying, and I I got up and I remember walking back in, but walking back in the house and the kids run up to me and they duddled me and I love you, Daddy. And my wife was looking at me, she's like, Oh, and she cuddled me. We're just all sitting there, and that moment, that moment then I was like, fuck, I've got all this shit wrong, all this stuff's wrong. I've been looking at this in the completely the wrong way. I was surrounded by love. Like not just that immediate family there, but I've got my brother, he lives in Australia, he's my best mate, love him to death. We message all the time. Got my mum and I was brought up with unconditional love. Got the most beautiful parents in the world. I've got pals who I grew up with in Essex, that they would they'd walk over hot coals for me, I'd do the same for them. This business community I'd built around me just uh become pals. So I knew I could wing up anytime and they'd go, yeah mate, I've got you, I'm here for you. Where I need I was like, blind me. If I if the metric in which I measured my success was based on relationships, then I have any off. I'm the the most successful I'm I'm like Elon Musk, right? Yeah, yeah. That's where I am. And I was like, wow, I wonder, and that's where I guess really that that was a m the big turning point for me. It then became the whole exploration of what it really means to be successful. And actually, if I'm feeling like this and I felt like a failure, but I was looking in the wrong way, maybe other people are feeling like that, and then you start looking into what society really measures success in. And this is what still kills me when when I share what the the dictionary definition of success is the attainment of fame, wealth, or social status. So the dictionary is telling saying that, right? That's what it means to be successful, them three things. And then when you look at the suicide rate, and 84 men die of suicide every single week, and 60% of those suicides are finance or economic related, you go this is what society and a dictionary is sending over here, and people are killing themselves over here because they're not measuring up to that. That's a problem. That's a problem, and that's something that needs to change. So for me, so much of what I'm doing now, and this this exploration of what it means to be successful, and if we can reframe it, I really believe if we reframe success and we take less pressure off men, especially, but as a society as a whole, then maybe we start to have an impact over here, and that that um I guess that that suicide rate starts to come down. That's my mission now, I guess. That's the and it's sort of formed the podcast and the episodes and they're putting all that together and and the exploration has all led me to to this, and then the You Alright May campaign and the programmes in school, everything I'm trying to do now. I've got a mission. My mission is to reduce that suicide rate, and everything that I'm doing now is to line towards that. And I guess that's in a nutshell where where we are.

SPEAKER_03: 9:49

No, that's that's powerful. That's powerful, and that's yeah, that's um thanks for sharing that, Sam.

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

It's important that somebody's doing things like that as well, because everything you said there, like today's modern society, it's all social media, in it, and all you see is this fake world of everybody rich and famous with flashcars and big houses. And even at an early age, I remember the first picture I had on my bedroom wall was a Lamborghini, and I was about six years old, you know. So you you have it instilled from a real early age as a kid growing up, and especially nowadays, like we talk about social media all the time for young people now, don't we? And all they see every single day of the week, all day, is cars, houses, money, fame, like that's success to everybody, it's still, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 10:32

It's you know what, it's you're so right, and and this is what's fascinating, right? So I uh part of the the mission now, I've done I've developed this programme, the You're Alright Mate programme, right? And we delivered our first one in the school last week. Um, and it's targeted at year 10. So my my kids' age group, right? So they're 10, 11 year olds, and we've done this exercise, rolled loads of sheets of paper out, really long sheets of paper. We asked them all when we say the word success, go and write a word down that that it comes to mind. Fame, famous, rich, wealthy, money, those are the things that were coming out a lot of the time. A couple lovely ones, a couple of happiness in there and stuff like that, but generally that was the opening thing. If you think of someone as successful, go and write someone down who's who thinks you see as successful. Elon Musk, Cristiano Bonaldo, people like, you know what I mean? Okay. So then I'll share a little bit of my story in the programme, but you're exactly right. The point is that because of social media, because of what society is, that is still the narrative that people get at a young age. That's what they're thinking at a young age.

SPEAKER_03: 11:38

And I think as well, even more now, like when we were growing up in our days, we didn't have social media. You only saw what you saw, and you had the news, you had the people at school, you had this. Now it's in your fact now, like 11-year-olds, 10-year-olds, 12-year-olds having this social media, it's constantly you've got to look your best, you've got to be this, you've got to be skinny, you've got to be that, you've got to have money, you've got to wear brands, you've got we have none of that. Yeah, we have none of that. Like, and I think especially now, and that's why when I saw your post on LinkedIn about and you said about going into the schools, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 12:13

Yeah, yeah. I I I I my belief, my belief is that with I believe the podcast I host, I believe the events I do, I believe the your iTMake campaign, all of this, the conversations I have will have an impact. I really believe that it's gonna have an impact somewhere. Um the the programme I've developed for men's mental health in in corporates will help. I believe that we can start to make a bit of an impact in the dent. Where we really make change, where we're really gonna make change is if we help that next generation. Why is it that so much of it that we get to midlife like I did, and we have a bit of a crisis, awakening, wherever we wherever we want to frame it. So much of it's to do, my learning, my understanding, the research I've done, the conversation I've had, so much of it is that we just don't have the skills or the tools to understand process our emotions. Right? Like, and when you look at the education system, and it's this archaic curriculum that is teaching kids in one way, right? That we're giving them skills that are pretty much outdated, that they're not even gonna need when they leave school. Oh, look at my kids, I've got twins, so they're the same age in the same school. Two girls, completely polar opposites. One fits into the education system, she's like my wife, really academic, like thrives. The other one's a bit like me, more creative, amazing imagination, emotionally, really aware. The one over here is being told she's a little bit behind. Yeah and I I my blood boils. I'm sorry, behind what was she behind? Or you know, she not because she can't memorise and regurgitate something that she doesn't fit into that system. So, and I'm like, imagine what it would be like if we started to give them the skills, the emotional uh literacy. We started to really hone in on that and and build uh uh a generation that is really emotional, can can listen, actively listen. Like what we're doing now, where we're having a conversation, you're listening, and then you're speaking, and I'll listen and really listen to what someone's saying. What do we what happens when we give them the skills to be able to process? So when I'm feeling angry or sad, I that's just an emotion that I can actually understand and process that. And then I can talk about it with someone. Maybe I can sit and share my feelings, and I'm not gonna be judged about that. What does that world look like if we were to give the the next generation those skills? Because I was, you know what? I talk about my mum and dad all the time, and they are, like I said, they are the most beautiful people in the world. Got an amazing relationship with them. They loved me unconditionally. I was loved, I knew I was loved unconditionally, what a gift that is, mate. Yet they didn't have the skills, or neither do like was I brought up in a space where we spoke about emotions, we just didn't, it just wasn't a thing. So I didn't have those skills, maybe. And I'm really think I really believe if we start to give kids those skills, then when they go into the world and they face adversity and they hit a struggle later in life, they've got the skills to process it, they've got the ability to talk about it and share it, and then maybe, maybe that really has the impact, and that starts to reduce the the that's that's that's my plan.

SPEAKER_03: 15:32

I think as well, like we were we were sort of sheltered back in our day because we weren't you didn't have 24-hour contact with anybody. I mean, I was around MSM Messenger was the thing. And as soon as someone picks the phone up, your connection's lost anyway. But now these kids, like, they're constantly in the line of bullying, bad comments. People I think, and it's important in the age that we're in for the the schools to teach people that that's someone else's opinion. Don't take that to heart, like, and I think that's like my daughters. I've got an 11-year-old who very academic goes through school, the school loves her because she's ticking all the boxes. My 17-year-old son had to leave school and go to college. Now, as soon as he went to college and the teachers treated him like a human being and not a number on a scorecard, he got on with it, and they loved him because that whole sitting in a classroom watching the teacher listening on the ball, writing stuff down, that didn't work for him. Whereas my daughter does, and that's the ones they want, they're the ones that they'll focus on, the ones that are doing well, the ones that get all the attention because they're gonna get that tick in a box at the end of the year when a school says, Here, Mr. Government, here's the GCSEs. It's like the SATS tests. The SATS test, we had a whole assembly when my daughter was in year six, whole assembly about SATS. Now she's very anxious, she's very she was petrified. Daddy, I'm not gonna do the test, I'm gonna do so. I said, Listen, it's not a test of you, it's a test of the school's ability to get people through the school.

SPEAKER_01: 17:09

Yeah, you're you're yeah, you're spot on. That is exactly what it is, and it's cruel.

SPEAKER_03: 17:14

Do you know what I mean? At 10 years old, you've got everything else going on in the world, you've got social media, you're well, especially as girls, the hormones might be coming in, etc. And then all of a sudden, they've they're being told by their teeth, these are the most important tests that you're ever going to have in your life, and they don't know how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

Yeah, it's so it is sober. One of the reasons we've gone in with the programme, we've gone into that year group, because exactly that, right? It's the first time that they've they've been put under that type of pressure. For what reason? And you and like we we've done a similar thing. We've like my kids are that age now, right? So we've just gone in and we've just had not we had it not an assembly, but we had it in different class groups, so we've got we've got twins, different classes, so we went to both of them, both sets of teachers can. You know what we think about sets where it's not something that the teachers don't even want to do it, but the government put that pressure on them, like surely there's not. We've spoken about before 160 conversations I've had on a podcast, right? And many more outside. There's not one person, one person I've spoken to that's not gone, yeah. I think the education system's a bit broken. Okay. So if that is the case, what the fuck are we doing when we're not someone's not looking at it and going, why why does this because they've set up a thing where there's a curriculum, it's still, it is still for an industrial set up for an industrial revolution that's void, don't even exist anymore. No, because we don't make nothing in this country anymore. We've given it all away. What are we setting them up for? Like, I've got like what killed me the other day, I shared this post about it about feeling inadequate, right? I've lived a lifetime of feeling quite inadequate. Irrespective of what I've done, achieved whatever, I felt inadequate. Fundamentally, that's come from my school, where my older brother was he was really clever, he was smart, he was one of the academics, really thin to it. Um by default, this was no one told me this, but by default, I was like, oh if he's the clever one, I'm the thick one then, mate. And I played that role a little bit, okay. But I'd done okay in school. I survived, I didn't enjoy, I didn't thrive, I just done okay. I was a bit of a middle of the road. Sport, excellent. One of my things was if Sam had his brains were in his feet, he'd be a genius, right? I was all right at football, so we could play. But that is where I excelled. But I I my feeling of leaving school was I was a bit thick and I was inadequate. And then when my ten-year-olds both went to me, oh daddy, can you help us with our maths only work? And no. I looked at it, I was like, yeah, no. I d I've got tried to get them to explain it to me. And one of them gone, oh because Kelly liked me what I feel really intelligent. She was like, Oh, I wish mummy was here, she would but no, you can you just think she's like and you go, but that's not them, that's on me, right? That's on me because of the feeling that I felt from leaving school. I don't and then whereas Susana explained it to me and she's getting on, she's doing all right, and Luke, he was going, Oh, I don't I don't get it, Daddy. And I'm no let's sit down, we'll try and work it out together. And then she went, Alexa, what's the answer? And I'm like, that's the reality, right? She's smart, that's the that's smart, because that's the real that's what's going to actually happen. And I'm not saying that it's a complete waste of time. I'm not saying that there's not foundations and stuff that they need to learn, but surely that's not got to be the main focus, right? I I think, I really believe, like I said, emotional literacy should be focused on more so, if not at least on a level part of what the academic thing, because I believe you'll build then, like you said, teaching kids or treating kids like they're human beings, not like they're just just a process that we've got to get them through. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03: 20:57

Do you believe as well that we've over the years with the use of technology, adults and kids, they've lost the ability to emotionally connect, they've lost the ability to sit in a room, have a conversation. Every single person you see from when they've got it, we're like this. We're talking through a phone, we're talking through this, and you're like, oh, I haven't seen my mates for ages, but I WhatsApp them every day. Whereas when you get that, there's no I love it when me and my mates manage to get together. Like we're all busy, we're all married, we've all got businesses and jobs and life, but there is nothing better than even if it is once every six months, we'll just go for a couple of bits and have a chat.

SPEAKER_01: 21:37

A hundred percent. I think we we we do, and look, we're all guilty of it. Well, I am. I I my big thing this year changed for me this year. I gave up alcohol, right? So I haven't drunk since December um last year. My second big, and I don't think I'll ever drink again, that's the honest truth. It's been game-changing, life-changing for me. The other thing is how much spent time I spent on my phone. I'm like, alright, and we can use the excuse we'll run businesses, so of course I've got to be on there all the time. But there's one thing that came out of the 100th episode was that one of the five pillars of success was presence, right? I I I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow, and I can't change what happened yesterday, but all I can do is be right here now, and that being the moment is such an important message. Like it's also very hard though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 22:27

It's one of the hardest things at the moment.

SPEAKER_01: 22:29

So hard. We're constantly we're distracted everywhere. People are fighting for our attention, the algorithm's constantly attacking us, so you sort of and yet of course it's not all bad. Social media is not all bad, AI is not all bad, of course not. There's some amazing things, and it's you know, it's enabled us to be connected in other ways, and it's just fantastic. I can WhatsApp me my brother, or I can FaceTime him and speak to him like he lives on the other side of the world. Amazing, amazing things. But I think with the advancement in AI, what what's really gonna be the what's gonna save humanity is this human connection, right? It's so like the the events I host, the top table things, I use a storytelling cards. We sit around a table like we would around a campfire and share stories. Like and people open up and they're vulnerable and they quite some people tell a funny story, whatever it is, they're just we're there sharing and building connection. That because as amazing as AI is, what it hasn't got is a soul, right? It can't look in your eyes like we are now and connect and and speak from the heart, and it hasn't got that. It can do amazing things.

SPEAKER_00: 23:37

God's never gonna be able to replace that. This this is my fear for like the future generations, because obviously all they do is disengage. They're at home, they're in their bedrooms on their phones or their computers, they're using phones and computers all day at school, every day now. There is no connection. Like, I've got a 20-one-year-old son, he connect with anybody or speak to anybody in the street, but then I know I've got mates that have got 12-year-old kids, and they don't even talk to them, they go around the house and you're like, alright, and they're like just and then just don't they don't engage with anybody. And I fear that that is what's gonna happen because if everyone is so wrapped up in staring down at your phone, you can talk to your friends on your Xbox or whatever you're playing with, and you don't they don't go out and play on the streets of each other, they don't go to the park and play football. So, is is the future generation just gonna be somebody that just doesn't engage with conversation? Which is why I've always said to my boy, whatever you do, make sure you learn how to speak to people properly because you'll be more successful in the future than other people because they won't have the art of engagement, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 24:38

That's I love that and that's such an important I'm gonna say with my kids, like we we um I I'm I'm half Greek Cypriot. I grew up sitting around the dinner table eating. I love cooking, passion of mine, so I'll do the cooking, we sit round the table and we sit and eat, and it's the only time I will not even have my phone in my pocket, don't matter what's going on in business. Phone's out there, and it's probably I'm trying to get better at doing that more, but I know that that one time of the day I'll sit around that table and we'll sit and talk. How's your day? Tell me about your day. And I've so I don't know if you saw I I launched something called Little Lunchbox Letters. I don't know if you've seen this. So I don't do do you know the I often reference the boy of the mole, the fox and the horse, Charlie Maxsee. Do you know that book? Yeah, yeah. So the animation, amazing, beautiful message. Love love it. And it inspired me. So I love drawing. So I do so in in the kids' lunch boxes, I've been doing it for about two years now. In the cage lunch boys, I do a little drawing and I leave them a little message. Um, and a mate of mine about a year ago was like, that's such a lovely thing to do. When you should um you should do a lot of it where I'd copy the boy the bold fox and the horse, but then he said, I'll do your own things. Alright, so I started doing them, and then I way my brain was actually I'll do this, this, this, and actually we'll set this up and then set up a thing called So I've done these cards where I've printed them and there's a message on in the back of each of them, and there's a little picture and it goes in there, and on on the thing, it's all around love, kindness, curiosity, following their dreams, just positive, really lovely. I love that subject that go in, and then in the pack, what comes in the pack is there's all the different subjects, so there's ten different things, and there's questions on each one. So for the parents, so to give them to them, so you go right, give them a card every day, and then when they come home, you've got on the walk home from school, sitting around the table, whatever it is, ask them a question who were you kind to today, or someone kind to you, just to create if it can just create conversation around a lot of it's around emotions, but talking about stuff and just sharing, you know, just getting them to share stories, engaging. Maybe that is again, maybe these little things have a little bit of an impact. So I've sort of incorporated it into the they get a success journal as part of the school programme. Each of the classrooms in the school have got little lunchbox letters now, and the teachers every day that we'll use one and that's and just little things like that, little subliminal messages that are constantly going in to let them know that they have enough, just as they are, not what they've achieved or whether they've enough just as they are, they're loved. All of these type of messages, I think, and and to and I know a lot of the stuff I'm really conscious of a lot of the stuff I share sometimes, can be seen as a bit woo-woo. People say to me, What success to love and be loved? That's my my definition. So if if that's and that can be seen, but but maybe so if we're just getting them like that, then are we not making them be ambitious and so absolutely uh disagree. I'm more ambitious today, sitting here in front of you today, I'm more ambitious now than I have ever been in since I started my business career.

SPEAKER_00: 27:42

For completely different reasons. For completely different reasons. Problem is if you speak to the most successful people, I guarantee you if they ask them what success is, they'd probably say to be happy and to have love and you know? Because you speak to you speak to rich and famous people and they don't have that. They don't have the friends because they don't trust anybody, they don't have the engagement with people because they don't know whether they can talk to somebody properly or go to the media or whatever. So they're probably all everybody just wants to be happy, really, didn't they? That is success, I suppose, to anybody, really, deep down.

SPEAKER_01: 28:10

A hundred percent. I I uh my the first episode of series nine's coming out um just before International Men's Day next week. I interviewed Jason Burrell, who was a one big brother back in 2016, um property tycoon. Like 58 property or something, correct like you know, multi-multi-millionaire drives around and he's been eating. He sat opposite me and he just went like when he was he talked about a really dark time where again he didn't want to want to be here. Um, and he just said, I would give up everything I've got to just feel happy for once in my life. That's horrendously sad, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03: 28:48

Come on, man, that's it as well, like all the money in the world, like yeah, like it doesn't mean nothing if you haven't got the people, the friendship, the relationships, the sons, the daughters, the mums, the dads, people that are proud of you, people that are proud of money changes a lot of people, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 29:08

And listen, let's let's be let's be real about it, right? Let's not say that I'm and I don't want it to be that I'm gonna have money's a bad thing. I don't think money's bad, I think it's a great thing. It's a great thing. Um I'd love to have more of it. Why would I love to have more of it? Because I want to have more of an impact. I I'd love I'd love to like I'll I'll be really honest, I'll be really honest, and this sometimes is contradictory for me. Like it sits I'm I'm still dealing with this and trying to unpack it, but I look at like the lack of money is what keeps me up at night, right? So I'm still robbing Peter to pay Paul over here, and I'm doing this, and I'm trying to, you know, the perception sometimes of me, maybe from so people will go, he's really successful traditionally. Uh financially, absolutely not. I'm struggling really and I'm like, I'm getting hell nicking a bit here, nicking a bit there. So that keeps me up. Up at night. I'd love to go. I said to someone the other day, I'd love to just go, I just want to breathe for five minutes. I'm just go. I'm not living in fight or flight. I'm just going. I just need enough. And and enough for me is I could go and live in my beach up. I don't need a lot. It's not about similar to you, um Lamborghini was my thing back in when I was 30. I'm gonna get Lamborghini. Of course I am enough Ferrari, probably. And that would have been my thing. No, I don't I don't I I don't need anything. Get me in my beach up and me able to swim in that sea every morning and my kids around me, I'm right. You know what I mean? I don't need a lot, but enough to just go, I've got enough. And I everything's paid, everything I got worry about it, it's not a worry of mine, then I can go and have more of an impact because I'm coming from a place of abundance as a place of scarcity. I think that's the the balance that I don't want it to be that that my message comes across as again, oh don't uh money and money's the root of all that's rubbish. Like uh m money's a good thing and it can be used for good, but don't let that be your only driver for where you want to get to wisdom.

SPEAKER_03: 31:05

I've learnt a lot over the last couple of years, and especially now. Like, all I want is enough money to be able to buy my time back. I want enough money to be able to be able to fly out and see my mum every six weeks who's now living in Spain on our own. I want enough money to be able to say, I don't have to or be successful enough to say, oh, it's the kids have got nativity plays and sports days, and I can go and do that. I want to be successful enough to what I put one thing we spoke about on an episode the other week is about how there's nothing for kids to do unless they go to football clubs. They're expensive. Go to this, it's expensive. When we was growing up, in where I lived, in my tiny little town, there were three different youth clubs you could go to. Yeah. Now there's nothing. My wife, me and my wife, I've always said, like, I like doing boxing, it's been good over the years for my mental health and stuff, and I'll go back next week. Like, and the guy that does the boxing gym, he's struggling, but he shows up every day and he's got these kids from there to there. I've always said, if I had enough money, I would I would love the money and give it to other people to help other people and not keep it myself. Because I believe in, and that's why it's so nice, it's like a breath of fresh air. You're going into schools and you're doing this, trying to teach kids that it's not money that makes you successful. Money helps the journey along the way. And I always used to, I want but the same as you, probably the same as you. I want to be a millionaire. I want to be a millionaire. Yeah, I want to but what's a million quid?

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

I'd like I'd like to be a millionaire, but I'd like to be a millionaire because I'd like to have money to be able to do things with my family to make the memories that need to be there in the future. You know, that's the only reason I want to be a millionaire, so that I don't, like you said, to sit on the sofa or lay in bed one night and just don't have to worry anymore. Because that would make the success even better because you've got the success of being able to sort you support your family 100% without them ever worrying. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 33:11

You're exactly right. And it's Sarah William said it when she came on that from financially Dragon's Den and you know Bombay Bicycle Club, everything that she built and bought the I-360. All she said was success is freedom, and that's what she's she's enabled herself to get in a position where she's got that freedom. Uh, she took her kids out between she had four in four years, and she took them out between five and nine, um, and three years, and they travelled the world. But she was like, I appreciate that was a privileged position I was in, and I was able to do that. But the and she got ridiculed by the Daily Mao and load of people about like how damaging that could be. She said, Every every day those kids had their own budgets that we had to work on, profit and loss sheets, they all had their own profit and loss sheets. So the financial literacy she was teaching them, not maps and Pythagoras Raw and shit like that, that no one's ever gonna use. And that's it, and that and that's the thing I think that money potentially enables us, is that freedom. And and and and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't like to at some point be in that position where I've just got that. Like I said, for me, it's just to be able to go where you're not like that, tight and going, I'm fighting off like, but you go, and I can breathe, and we're doing all right. Maybe that's it.

SPEAKER_03: 34:34

Does it make it makes like I know it obviously with my business and stuff, I am so much more proactive, I'm so much more in the room, so much more present when there's a little bit of money in the bank, not even a lot, when there's enough money in the bank to pay that supplier, to pay that bill, to pay the staff. Like it does, it keeps you awake at night. Of course, and every single if I look back through my life, every single really hard moment has always been money. It's always been money. And like you say, the suicide rates, it's always about money. You go on uh Daniel O'Reilly's group, Men and Their Emotions. There's a lot of posts in there, I'm struggling, I'm working my ass off, I'm working every single day, and it's still not enough. It's still not enough. What can you possibly do?

SPEAKER_01: 35:23

Yeah, and it is, it's such a it's such a hard, it's such a hard thing because it isn't, and we're living in a time where you know cost of living, it's got like it costs so much. You go out for you want to take your kids and like family out for a meal, dropping 150 quid, do you know what I mean? Like just to go pizza express or something now, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 35:42

Well that's funny you say that. Last night my mum's flying back to Spain today, so she was like, right, we're all gonna go, we're gonna go out, where should we go? We looked at the harvester and I was like, look, I was in the harvester having breakfast when you rang me and told me I'd joined the dead dad club. Like, I don't really want to go there. She was like, Oh, we'll go to Pizza Express. I've got this 25% off voucher for pizzas. Well, we went in there last night, eight of us. My seven-year-old had£8.50 because she had the kids' menu. All we had was a pizza each, a bottle of wine, and they had some desserts. 300 quid for eight of us. When we were out in Spain, there was nine of us, we went out for dinner, starters, mussels, croquetas, like bottles of wine, sangria, dinners, desserts, 175 euros. Yeah, wow. And you wonder why people want to move to and this is what my mum and dad were saying about like my dad's worked his arse off for 65 years, or not 65 years, because he was 66 when he died, but he's worked, and my mum's been saying, Let's move, let's move, let's go to Lans Roy, let's go to Spain, let's and he's like, Oh, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But back in February this year they took the leap, and the last six months of his life was he was the happiest. He was the happiest he's ever been. He's got the sunshine, and he he was worried because he was like, We haven't got loads of money, we haven't got loads of money, but he's like, We don't need it. I get my pension, you get my pension, we're all right. And he was the happiest I've ever seen him. That's lovely, because he gave Yeah, that's lovely.

SPEAKER_01: 37:17

And that's it, right? We don't when you break it down, you don't need much, but you do need enough, and that's the that's the thing, isn't it? And people go, what is enough? But and it's Miss Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? We only need can we get enough to go, can I it have this, this, this, and this shelter, food on the table for my kids. And actually, like you said, that by getting that little bit more, you get that bit of freedom, it's time, right? Time is our biggest commodity, right? We can't like you just and and we can't buy that back. And I do look at like all the things I'm doing. I am busy and I juggle different hats and all the different things I I'm doing, but I am conscious that I like them kids are only that age for that amount of time. I still drop them at school most days and I pick them up and I'm around, and and it's trying to get like one again. Another one of the pillars of success was balance, right? And trying it's this whole thing work life balance. What does that even mean, really? Um, but one of the best descriptions I had of it was um a guy uh Rob Star who's been on, he's just that got his MBE this year, he runs a Star Trust and got Sago amazing business, and he's incredible, incredible individual. But his description was the best. He said, like, you know, you've got life, life is just this ball, right? And in life, you've got your business, and you've got maybe charity stuff, and you've got your personal stuff, and you've got family, and you've got friends, and you've got all them things there, and you just get up every day and you do the best you can with what you've got in front of you that day. And I look at that and I think so. Sometimes I'll get up and I might have a breakfast meeting in the morning, and I'll out all day I'm recording a podcast, and I'm going out, I've got an event, and I might not even see the kids that day. You know what? I've been up the business, is great, I've been a really good businessman that day, not been a great dad. Other days, I'll be up and I'll take them to school, I'll make sure I've never missed an assembly, never missed a uh sports day. I'll be at that thing every day. And maybe I've cancelled a few meetings. So I've the business hasn't moved forward that day, so I've not been a wooden businessman, but I've been a good dad that day. So sometimes just every day, and it's the acceptance for that, right? It's the acceptance of that, and every day I'm gonna do the best I can with what I've got in front of me. Good now. And that's okay. And if we can get to that point, maybe that's what balance is. Doesn't mean I'm gonna work eight, I'm gonna work nine till five, and then I'm gonna spend an hour with the kids, and then that's and some for some people that is balance, maybe that's okay, and it is different for everyone, but I think balance is that just getting up every day and doing the best you can, right, with what you've got in front of you.

SPEAKER_03: 39:47

And I think when I was gonna do the podcast on my own, it was gonna be called Front Foot Forward. That's what it was gonna be called, and that was sort of a way after closing a business. I was like, look, I've got to I've gotta stop looking at the end goal, I've got to stop looking there, and I've got to look at today, and like we said, it's about living in the moment, and I love what you've just said because yeah, okay, that day I wasn't the business club for the last month. I've not been a very good businessman because I've been out in Spain, but I've been a good dad, a good husband, and a good son, and a good brother. I love that, and we've been there, and the business has taken a hit, of course it has, but I'm in a privilege the all the hard work that I've put in over the years has has allowed me to do that. My man used to say, he used to say, just do a little bit every day, and you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, sorry, I got a bit emotional then. I got a bit emotional then.

SPEAKER_00: 40:44

Thing is, I I think also we have to take a little bit of responsible responsibility for ourselves as well, don't we? You know, like just go, I'm actually going back because I do my butt in, but the way that we live our lives, you know, it it we've been taught to to think that it's never enough. You know, we're worrying about money and everything, but if you just slow down and realise what you're striving towards today is what you strove towards last year. You know, like you've got now what you wanted last year, why do you need something else next year? Why can't you just stick in the lane that you're in now and have enough? Not go out for Pizza Expresses twice a month, not go on holiday twice a year instead of once a year, and spend that time and have that money with your family. Do you know what I mean? But we're all just like going back to what you said at the start, we're all taught in society, we're all everything is you always need more. It's more, it's agreed, we're agreed culture, aren't we? Everybody just wants more all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 41:39

And and it's you're you're so right. And there's there's the there's the thing again, that narrative on social media, like productivity, right? We've got to be productive or like 24-7. Like, if I'm sitting there and like, what does it mean to just be not do anything, just be? This is what the this is so one of the things that like the collective definition of success that come out of the hundred episode, we've done all this stuff with the hundred episodes, so all the transcribed of every episode, and when he delved in used AI, I got all the themes and everything, collective, and what one the part the first part of it was the ongoing pursuit of fulfilment, right? So we do need a purpose and we do need fulfilment, and we want to, and we're we're we're but in that what what I've realised even since that so I've done another 30 episodes, and the one that I spoke to Sarah Willingham about, I was like, we're talking about this in the ongoing pursuit of fulfilment, and she spoke about her friend who died of suicide, and she said it he did get life though. She said he did he died, he had some mental health issues, and he ended up he died he died of suicide, but he got life because he was just he lived every moment in that moment, and she said, she goes, I'd ring him up, like so. And this is where the whole um polishing my bezel leaves because she went, I'd ring him up and go, What are you doing today, just polishing your basil leaves? And it was a bit of a it became a bit of a metaphor, and I was listening to I was like, what is it that we can't we feel that we've got to be doing doing something all the time that especially when you've got your own business, right? We sit there, there's always something to do in there. Never a time you ever get to the end of you to do this and go, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03: 43:12

Never you know because by the time you've done it, another five things have come on the bottom, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01: 43:17

Exactly that. So we're never so the acceptance of going, I'm never gonna get everything done, there's always gonna be so to do. So, what does it mean to just sit and do nothing? We're not that things like you say I'm gonna do that, people go, Oh, you're lazy, or you know, oh what you be you could be doing that. What do you mean you've got two businesses already? Why don't you go and sit up a further? You can you can do that in this hustle culture, it's just there's a and and again, it's combating is the there's the combating of it, right? Doesn't mean that I said I'm more ambitious, I've got a million things on at the moment, really exciting projects that I'm fucking really passionate about, that I've got that purpose and that drive, and I want to go and make them things happen. And it's trying to combat that with that drive and ambition and that wanting to do more for the right reasons because I've got a purpose and but combating that with going. It's alright to just sit and do nothing. Just sit and pop every battery or leaves night. Maybe that's okay. There's a again back to that thing balance and trying to get that that right. I think that's the message that especially for kids again, like going that you don't it's not success, not always about achievement. I think that's the thing is about achievement. We've got to achieve something to be actually just being happy, being in the moment. Maybe that's that's just successful.

SPEAKER_03: 44:37

And I think as well, we we just like what works for one person might not work for you. When you're following these, I'd go to I'm in the gym at half four in the morning, and then I have my coffee, then I'll have my bowl of musally, and then I'll do two hours' work, then I'll go back to the gym, then I'll take the kids to school, then I'll do this, then I'll do this, and they list all these things that they do, that might not work for you. Then you've got other entrepreneurs that I don't get out of bed till midday, then I have a coffee, then I might have a McDonald's because I'm hungry, then I'll work in the evening. And what works for one person won't necessarily and I've learned this, like I need to be in the gym to be successful. I've got to join the 5am club, I've got to be in the gym every that might not work for me.

SPEAKER_01: 45:19

Yeah, you're absolutely you're absolutely right. Again, there's then them narratives, and it's the same with actually with success, it's the it it's it's different for everyone, mate. Everyone's got their own definition. What's been so fascinating about this whole journey for me and learning about it is everyone's different, everyone's got their own, and I I've come up with these five pillars and this whole framework of what I believe it to be because I've listened to all these different people, and again, that frame might might still not work for some people, and there's some people that will go, yeah, fuck you say, Yeah, you got a clue, I'm gonna go and be a millionaire because that's why and you know what, knock yourself out, that's fine, you go and do that, and that and everyone's different, and I think that's the but that's what's beautiful about life, innit? Yeah, a bit different.

SPEAKER_03: 46:01

What um so I want to bring this back to sort of men and mental health, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I know you're a big advocate for this, yeah. What do you think that it is that men struggle with the most? And like why there's this whole why there's so many men suicidal, like Chris was in the construction industry, and I know that's a terrible industry for it at the moment. Why do you think that it's obviously we've said finance and things, but what do you what are your takes on why we are where we are?

SPEAKER_01: 46:31

I I think I think a lot of the stuff we spoke about already, right? But also there's so much, there's still so many archaic narratives out there vulnerabilities, weakness, being open to talk about stuff. We're just not again, we're not given the skills to be able to talk. Like blokes will go down the pub and and have a chat, but we'll talk about the football. Not gonna ask you, mate, hey, hey, how you feeling? What? What do you mean? Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. Like what that's the like the whole you're right, mate thing come from that. It's the it's the question that as a bloke we ask everyone, right? You see something, hey, you right mate, how you doing? Immediate default answer, yeah yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, what what happens when you really are someone out of feeling? And this is where like for me, the shift has come for me personally, has been that I'm able to go, I'm able to go now, but actually I'm struggling at the minute. I'm struggling, and uh there's no shame around that. The biggest thing for me is there's so much shame around going, well, I'm gonna put my hand up and go, you know what, I'm not in a good place at the moment. It does me doing that, one does it make me weak? Absolutely not, but by asking for help, that's brave. It's not weakness, that's that's not me going, that's me going, I'm being really brave, I'm standing up and going, I need some help. Can someone help me? And people when if someone if a mate comes to you and goes, I'm struggling, I'm do you look at them and go, fucking hell, they're a bit weak.

SPEAKER_00: 47:58

Or she don't, you go Actually makes you feel better about yourself that they trust you enough to to put that on you as well, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 48:05

I think 100% that. 100% that. So we go, but there's still there's still so and what does it there's still so much shame around these narratives around being able to share and speak about our emotions, um, be open about them, cry and be vulnerable. There's so much shame still around that. We can we need to that needs to change, that's so much of that, to actually really go have all blokes being able to really talk and open up about stuff again. You know, the whole UI I made campaign was based on that, just go in. And someone said to me the other day, they went, How successful's that campaign been? My default answer is always going to be how to define successful. Um so I've gone to that. So has it gone viral? Have I written 10 million views? No, absolutely not. Does every single Monday that someone message me and go, You're right, mate? And does that give and I I've you know, I I've me and my wife, who I've been with for 28 years, we separated in June this year, um, which has been a really tough period for me. But don't we wrong? She's my best friend still, we've been best mates since we were 11. She's my best friend in the world. I love her to bits, and we've separated with love, like we're still best friends. Um as separations go, it's amazing. So, but has that been hard? It's been still really hard. I've spent a lot of time on my own. Spent a lot of time on my own, right? Um, trying to process and understand and really live with those feelings and emotions, and I've tried to do that. But I have people messaging me there, like, because I did start to go into a little bit of a hole again where I was I'm gonna just ignore people, but then I'll get a you're alright, mate. I'm like, fuck, I'm running this campaign, how can I not answer that? So I have and I've answered it and I've been honest. I've been I'm actually struggling, and people have helped me this year for the first time. Really, really, I've really put my hand up and gone, I need some help. And with business, with friendships, everything I've gone, I need a bit of help. But it's no surprise, I've got to the end of this year, and I promised myself I'll get to the end of this year, and then we look because last December weren't in a good place again. Got to the end of last year and I was like, fuck. And I had uh one of my pals, Gav Willis from Search Seven, he turned up on my door Christmas Eve, knew I was struggling, turned up on my door Christmas Eve, had a card that got signed by about 30 people within the business community, bought me a brand new set of golf clubs, turned up on you, just went, You do so much for people, we want you to know how much you're loved and how much we turn up. I'm like fucking went now quiet for about three hours and looking at the right. I'm like I'm surrounded again, surrounded by love. And I made a choice that day. I got up, I stopped drinking in December. I got up and I said, Things are gonna look different next year, and I'm gonna go next. Reach out to people, I'm trying to do this. Can you help me? Yeah. It's changing for me. Back to your original question, it's changing archaic narratives. That's how we're gonna start to make some change. There is no shame around showing vulnerability is a strength, it's not a weakness. 100%. Asking for help is being really brave and courageous, it's not weakness.

SPEAKER_03: 51:21

And also I think it g it puts you in a by showing vulnerability, there'll be people in your circle that are like, oh fuck me, he's helped me in the past. What do you need? Can I help you in any way? Even if it's even if it's sharing, even if it's sharing a clip of your podcast, even if it's taking you out for dinner or saying, mate, do you want to go? Obviously, not a beer anymore, but do you want to go around the Gulf? Like, that's massive. And I've had the last few weeks, my mates have been amazing. And I'd be I'd be screwed without them. Oh, are you coming back? Right, we're picking you up from the airport, we're going to have a beer and some chicken wings. Like, are you alright, mate?

unknown: 52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 52:01

Are you like, are you actually alright? And they've checked in, and like you've checked in with me. Are you alright, mate? How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01: 52:06

It's it's just I I really, I honestly believe. I really believe. And that's why I like when I started it in June, I started it in June, we launched a campaign, and every Monday, it doesn't matter, whatever I do, every Monday, without Fat I'm gonna post that thing. And I don't care if no one likes it, sees it, shares, whatever. But if one person, just one person sees it and they go, I'm gonna check in on someone, and that one person checks in and they go. I've had I've been fortunate I've had some messages from people who have said, I've checked in on mate, and he responded with he's struggling, so thank you for the campaign. And it just I think if we just constantly, it's a constant thing to just go check in, but not just you're alright, mate, are you really alright? And really ask that that second time. And and and and if we can get people to answer really honestly, like you said, if we can show vulnerability, it gives other people permission to do that, right? You show that you're able to be open and honest and transparent about how you're really feeling, gives other people permission to do that. I think that's maybe where we start to shift. Um, you know, there's loads of things on the back of it, like it started out as that initial campaign that you know we've just got a partnership agreement with Samaritans that we're looking at launching the alcohol-free lager, and um I've got some other big plans I won't I can't mention just yet, but for next year, like all around just going, let's let's keep that conversation going. Do you know what I mean? Let's let's keep asking, let's keep checking in, let's keep answering, honestly. And if we can encourage people to do that, maybe we start to make a difference.

SPEAKER_03: 53:45

And I think also by sharing your story and sharing what you're going through, there'll be someone out there that's going through the same thing as you. There'll be someone listening to this who's doing exactly what you did all those years ago, sitting in your car. Yeah, in tears, in bits, in crying, not wanting to go into the house. There'll be people and they can relate to that. And that's why we started this podcast. We want it to, we said last week, didn't we, in the episode today, what's the goal for this podcast? To be the UK's most honest podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 54:13

I love that. No, no, like polished it's got to be real. Yeah. But that kind and and and credit to you guys, because it does whether ones I listen to, you do, you come across as you're two great blokes like just having really honest conversations, and it's so, it's so important. It's so important what you're doing, honestly. It's uh because it is this there's a lot of fluff out there, there's a lot of stuff that where things are really polished, and there's some incredible podcast everyone from like the the celebrities who doing these brilliant things, and they have some amazing conversations, but actually for me, there's something real and honest about stuff like what you guys are doing. So it's good.

SPEAKER_00: 54:51

I have got an honest question for you, actually. So at the moment, you've got Brighton Football Club, you've seen the the advert they've run. Yeah, I agree. Really good advert in it. Yeah, it's incredible. Obviously, a couple of years ago it was Norwich, and when we saw that one. How do you feel that somebody like you has to put all this time and effort in to try and help people when big corporations out there that could easily put publicity after publicity after spend money after money on helping people and make a big deal out of it, they only do it when they feel like they've got a ticker box? Really good question.

SPEAKER_01: 55:24

Um I think like that one with the football club. So I was you can just about see my hat in the background. I wasn't. But we were part of a steering group, like they brought a steering group together to to get that up and running. Um, and that's come from the campaign together against suicide thing that has come from Roman Kemp. Um, he's led it and he's gone to the Premier League, and that's why Brian had been a pilot. Um and I think that there is a balance speaking to the football club as I have, and um since then that what what what they've said is actually, and and I I get this as well, they're not on men's mental health champagne, they're a football club, and that's their foremost thing that they've got to do. Yes, they can use it to help, and they I think they have done, I think they've done a great job with that. Norwich City, that's still and what an amazing video that was. So they're they're doing things like that. Um I do think there's got to be a culture shift. I think in society as a whole, I do think corporations have got to really get behind men's mental health. I don't think you know, if their business is not that, then this but it shouldn't be a tick box. A lot of the programme I've developed that we're taking into some corporates in London is is a culture shift. It's not and I I'm what I get people behind it that they go, Well, this is not a tick box. Yeah, we'll get Sam in, he's gonna talk about men's mental health. Great, done. But it's I I've developed a journal that people take so people that engage in that programme, it's an ongoing thing. This is a a culture that you're gonna instill in your organisation where you organise men's groups on a monthly basis and weekly basis, getting people to talk. It's got to be a kind that's where I think corporations have got to get behind. The same with whether you're talking about you know um diversity, inclusion, sustainability, all of them things that a lot of corporates will go boom tick box. But actually, if they really look in and go, what does it mean? That's what I want. Uh I guess the UIMate program to be that it's not just like I get maybe thinking too big, but like like B Corp is for sustainability that type of thing. I want it to be that your mate program becomes something like that. It's a culture shift. They get something that stole one of my questions, yeah. That was going to be.

SPEAKER_00: 57:42

Where do you want it to finalize? Where do you want to finally be? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 57:44

I I I think I mean this, so I'll be honest with you. Like, my brain has gone off on one night. This year, like I said, I've come to the end of the year, and I'm so clear. I am crystal clear on my purpose, my mission. And that is liberating. I'll be honest with you, that's liberating. It's giving me the energy and the the drive to go and and I have the as entrepreneurs, our brains working that way, don't know we're creative, and that's and that's tapping into all of that for me. So I've got some massive plans for next year with it, but that I'm I'm just about to deliver. So we're calling this now, but next week I'm delivering to Focus Group the first um men's mental health programme. We're starting as a pilot and and testing it the same as this one alongside the school one. So the idea is that everyone I deliver into the corporates that they will sponsor they will fund the school. So I won't ever charge the schools, so we will deliver everything to schools for free. So every one of these I will deliver for men's mental health, and that will go in. That I believe is gonna hopefully have an impact. The alcohol-free lager, um, you know, we're just we've just put the deck together to go out to so Samaritans are on board. So a percentage from every can that's sold will will go to Samaritans um to help with suicide prevention. The the like the idea here for the lager is is alcohol free, but trying to create that pub culture again, but where we're not going and getting battered, um, but we're going and just if it if someone just sees it that they go, you're right, man, there's little conversation things on the can, and it just sparks, if it just sparks a conversation, then maybe that starts to to make an impact. And yeah, we'll see. But it's it look it's the start of uh I feel like it's the start of a journey for me, really. Like when I'd done the hundredth episodes, someone and we'd done I'd done a night and we showed it, and people said to me, like, oh, you've done a hundred episodes, like what's next? And it it really felt like that I'd done a hundred episodes, it was the start of the journey as it's formed. This framework, which has formed the programme, which has formed the the campaign, and all these things, it's all leading, but it's all led by this mission and a purpose, and that's crystal clear, and and now everything that's come. In, I'll go, yeah. Does that alarm on the mission? Is that gonna get me towards that? Yep, whatever, let's do that then. If it doesn't, no, that's not for me then right now. So it's been I've been able to maybe hang a few hats up as well as I'm picking up some new ones, and I think that's the that's the thing. But yeah, just some big plans for it next, you know, over the next months, and with a view that you know what? Can I leave this world in a little bit of a better place than what I found it? We're gonna give it a go. Give it a go.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:28

And I can see the passion oozing out of you, literally. There's so much passion there for it. There is no way you will fail it. There is no way because you can see it. Can you see it, Chris? See the passion.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:40

Thank you. Yeah, I'm um yeah, I'm I'm enthused by it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:45

It's nice to sit and actually speak to somebody that does have passion about it, and that's just to that isn't just talking about it and not actually doing anything about it as well, you know. Because there's a lot of chat, there's a lot of chat out there, and there's a lot of people that want to talk about things, but they don't actually put anything in place.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:58

It is it's take it's it's weird, is it it's taking that. I I post I posted over the weekend actually, and I said exactly that. Like we delivered that first program, it was probably one of the most rewarding things I did. I stood in front of 90 kids on Thursday asking about all that, and I've shared a bit of my story. Um, and they was in paid for that hour. It was amazing, right? Thankfully, I didn't talk to them for an hour, but we'd done all these different things, and we're we but we'd done an it was an amazing thing, and probably the most rewarding thing. But I looked back over my message, and Max Marshall, I'm doing it with, he reached out to me on August the 8th this year. Been following you for a while, um, love the stuff you're doing, any chance we can meet for a coffee. So I looked at his stuff, life education, which he was a teacher, 10 years in in the education curriculum, was disillusioned with it, wanted to come out and set up his own thing. So he and so we met for a coffee the following week, sat down and was like, There's so much alignment here. This was on August the 8th this year. Within that period of time, he's been on the podcast, been a guest at BBBC for um um at the I host that breakfast club I host um as a guest speaker. We put a programme together and we delivered it on the thing. And that's the thing, right? Because it's coming up, going, This is an idea, let's talk about it. But actually, could you sit around the table and talk about it for a long time? I actually know let's take some action, and that is it, isn't it? It's it's fine to have these amazing ideas and go and talk about them and do them things, but you've got to that's and that's for the same in life, in business, in anything we do. I like it's great to talk, but but what's the what's the worst that can happen? Just go and do we spend so much time of our life in this little comfort zone over here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:41

Talking ourselves out of it. Yeah, talking ourselves, oh well, oh yeah, but it's gonna I'm gonna have to do that, and I'm gonna have to sacrifice that, and I'm gonna have to do that. Yeah, but if you don't try, you'll never know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:52

And my my my thing is um I I've shared this a couple of times in a pub, but there's there's a brilliant thing Denzel Washington said about it. Um and I can't remember the guy who originally said it, but anyway, it's it's it's the um it's a thing about the ghost of your future potential. I don't know if you've heard about it, but it's the so you're on your deathbed, right? And you're surrounded by the ghosts of the ideas that you had and you didn't take, the dreams you had and you didn't follow. And you're sitting on your deathbed and they're all sitting there looking at you, and all these ghosts are sitting there looking at you, they're going, we were ready to do this with you. Why didn't you why didn't you why didn't you jump? Why don't you do that? Why don't you take that gamble? Why don't you have that go? But now we're just gonna die with you. And the question I ask isn't how many ghosts are gonna be around your deathbed when your time comes, right? And that really landed with me the first time I heard that, and I I I I I honestly I don't know what the rest of my life looks like. I don't know. Um I've got loads of ideas and ambitions and all these things. I'll tell you why, and I might not ever be successful inverted commas by the dictionary definition, might may never make that fine, and you know I'm okay with that. I can guarantee one thing though, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be lying on that deathbed. There's not gonna be many ghosts around there, and that that I'm I feel at peace with, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:22

I'd have a boatload. Really? Loads of them, yeah. Loads. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:30

I'd I like to I I'm one of those people who I will start a thousand things and never finish them. I'll just never start them.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:36

But I do try them. What stops you from starting? Probably just what you said earlier on, just feeling a bit inferior. Really? Oh, same as you in school, exactly the same. Um just always always kicked out of class because it was being a bit disruptive, but it wasn't a naughty disruptive, it's 'cause I wanted someone's attention to listen to what I had to say, you know. Um but yeah, loads, mate, loads. There'd be loads of people there. But you can't you have got the ability to change it one. I'm changing it now. That's what I'm saying. I'm 43, so I'm a couple of years after you had your epiphany. Um I had mine probably about what's 30, 39, I had mine. Um but yeah, it's it's it is like you said, you know, that that going back to the school thing very quickly, like there's two types of people at school, and I think the school is actually made to have those two sorts of people. You get the people that go and be the boss, and you get the people that go and be the workers. And I think that's why the school system doesn't change personally. But that's that's exactly where I was. You know, I was I was that kid that was always told you're never gonna be anything and never get anywhere in life. And it does, it does get in here, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:42

Massive, massively. And it's that impossible, like still times you sit there with an imposter syndrome, you sit and go, ah play all that. Um I don't I I don't have the right to be though, like what what stops uh I think for the first time for the first time I'm at a stage now where I believe I've got something to say and I believe in that actually I went for a long time always caring what people thought, did always think, I'd say that. Really interesting. I know I'll coming towards it, I'm sure, but I'll I'll leave you with this. I I I I sat around, I've been doing some stuff. A guy, a good friend of mine, reached out of the University of Sussex, become really good friends, um, and he invited me to uh a dinner with a load of professors and academics. Talk about duck out like imposter syndrome. I'm sitting there at the table. Now, five years ago, I'd have probably maybe not gone to that, or I'd have sat there very quiet and just uh and as you could have told from this episode, I'm not someone who's very quiet. I've got a lot to say, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat. I love a chat, hence why I started a podcast. But I sat and this time I sat there, man, at table and I didn't feel quite still a little bit. There was the old label here, the imposter syndrome. I'm what the fuck are you doing here? Don't say anything because you they'll catch you out, like you're and then another part of me went, You is it I'm here because I've got something to say. If you don't agree with me, I'm absolutely fine with that, really am fine with that. Um, but uh this is on my my belief and my research and what I've spoken about and my lived experience, you can't take that away from me. The same with you, right? Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, your lived experience, no one can take that away from you. And what we and what our take on the world and what we believe, that's our belief. And who's to say that you're right or wrong, or just because they've got a few letters after their name, or they're professors and they're seen as society, is oh, they've got to be super intelligent because they're and and it's really amazing. This guy who reached out to me, who took me to the event, he was like, I'm surrounded by professors and people of academia who are incredibly, incredibly intelligent. And he very kindly said, You're the most intelligent, smart person I know. And that's nothing to do with academia, but to do with how you communicate and maybe that. So I listen, I'm with you, we're probably on a similar path with things, right? But just my only advice is and I'm still trying to get better here, but just go, this is me, right? Um believe in yourself and keep going, and I bet you're already doing it, right? You're already doing it. So I bet in five years' time we'll sit and have a beer together, a you're alright-made beer, maybe, um, and we're going uh, and then you're maybe maybe that answer to that question of how many ghosts, maybe there won't be as many.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:31

Yeah, yeah. Just one more question for you, Sam.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:35

Go on.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:36

What you've just said about this, I've learnt over the last few years that we are all just people. It doesn't, and this is why I want to ask you this. It just came to you've sat in your podcast, yeah, on your podcast, with some people that probably deserve to be put on a pedestal. I used to do this, I used to put people on the pedestal. If the client turns up in a Rolls-Royce, they're on a pedestal. If they've got a nice house, they're on a pedestal. And then one day it just clicked and I said, We're all just humans. We're all just humans, we've all been dealt the same cards, some people not, but we're all made of the same thing. So how have you like I would imagine through your this seeing your 150-60 episodes ago, you started a podcast. Now you're interviewing some very, very successful people. Can you relate to that? That we're all just people.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:27

Yeah, mate. You know what? 100 but I'll tell you uh I'll leave you with a story about uh what made me think this, right? Uh when I done that event that I mentioned earlier, I I had I reached out to some of those super successful people you mentioned and said, I'm hosting this event, like you to come as my guest. Would would you come along as my guest? And all of them turned up. So I had ten pe only small group, ten people, but half of them were these successful people. Get the storytelling cards out, right? And we're asking, I've got people like Kevin Byrne sitting there, got quite emotional sharing a story about his brother. Actually, we're all exactly that, that that's when it landed for me. I'm like, I'm I'm sitting here, I bought these people together, they're all in this room to support me in some way, lovely, that's amazing. But they are all just people, we're all just sharing a story at a different level. We've all got vulnerabilities, weaknesses, we've all got um strengths, we've all got all these different things that we're made up of. But we are all just human beings, and and that's it, the end, right? Um and and that really that's I do feel I feel more confident with that. There's as we've mentioned, there's still the the old Sam on there that the inadequate, you're rubbish, you can't do this, I'm trying to quiet on that one a little bit more now. I'm trying to listen to this guy. You're done right, you know. You're just the same as all these others. And what I've noticed with the podcast in your findings as well, I'm sure with people who come on, we're everyone's fucking blagging it. We're all just making this shit up as we're going along, right? No one's got the answers to it. No, we're all just giving it a go, right? And some of us, and so I will get further than others, and some of us do, but I think yeah, that's where we are.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:17

Just do a little bit every day.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:18

Just do a little bit every day, mate. I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:21

Before we wrap it up, Sam, how can people listen to your podcast?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:26

Um just search up wherever you l get your get your podcasts, it's on every every channel, so Spotify, Apple, YouTube, um, just under different hats. Um yeah, check it out, subscribe, it really helps. So um, yeah, keep keep checking. I'm on Instagram as well, and you can check that out and and follow me on social. So, yeah. Put all your handles in the uh podcast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:49

In the podcast thing. Um one final question, Sam. Are you alright, mate?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:56

Mate, today I am really alright. Thank you. I am doing I am doing alright at a minute. And um, it feels good to say that because if you'd asked me probably a couple of months ago, it might have been a different thing. But right now, today, I'm in a really good place and I feel I feel really infused by everything that's happening. And uh yeah, it's gonna be I feel like next year is gonna be an interesting, exciting, and big, big year. So uh yeah, today I'm alright, mate.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:22

We can't wait to uh keep an eye out on it, mate, and see how successful it is because I'm sure it'll be brilliant.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:27

Amazing. Thanks, honestly. It's been uh great chance, you guys, and keep doing what you're doing. I love the podcast, and it's you're doing some good stuff, so keep having them real conversations. It's lovely. Thank you so much, mate. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:39

That was Sam Thomas on the Untold Podcast. Like we've said, like, share, subscribe, leave us a review, share it with your friends. If it can help one person out, I mean that's been a really good chat.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:51

I think I've got I've gained a lot out of that as well for myself. I seem to have gained quite a lot of these uh the guests that we're having. I think I seem to gain more than what I should do, really. But yeah, getting there. Well, thanks for listening, thanks for watching. We'll see you next week. Take care.